Simultaneous Effect Resolution from "By Battle" Triggers. Advice Needed.

Started by 3XXXDDD, August 11, 2014, 09:34:02 PM

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3XXXDDD

After much consideration, I have come to a conclusion on how to handle effect resolution but battle catches me off guard.

There are three types of effects: Action (which can only be activated during your turn while nothing else is going on), Reaction (can only be activated in response to an opponent's action) and inaction (just an effect that is constantly applied).

When the Turn Player resolves an Action (Plays a Creature, Declares an Attack, Resolved an Effect), the Opponent may play any number of reaction effects in response (as long as their timing is met) and may resolve them in any order he chooses. All of these are considered to be resolved simultaneously.

Next the Turn Player may respond to any of the effects resolved by his opponent with his own reaction effects. He can respond to any and up to all effects resolved by his opponent with any amount of his own reactions, once again choosing their order of resolution.

This back and forth continues until one decides to stop responding. (Also, you cannot respond to your actions).

E.g.

Turn Player plays a Creature

Opponent responds with "Pit" (When a Creature is played, destroy it) and "Mirror" (When a Creature is played, play a Creature from your deck).

Turn Player responds with Recover (When a Creature is destroyed, play it) and "Pit" (When a Creature is played, destroy it).

Ending result is Turn Player still has his Creature and the Opponent no longer has his.

That's the system for the most part and honestly, I'm quite satisfied with it. However, it becomes a bit more complicated when we come to effects that state things like "When this creature destroys a creature by battle, you may do X" and "When this creature is destroyed by battle, you may do Y". The problem here is that both effects have the same timing, so technically, as a literal interpretation of the system means both players can respond at the same time and well that just isn't going to work. I have considered some solutions though and just wondering if people had any comments about them or suggestions for a better way to handle this.

1) Don't make Creature effects that trigger by battle.

2) Exclude all effects, other than the participating creatures, in the battle.

3) Apply Bias to one side. Either have no effects that trigger "By battle" for the attacking player OR have no effects that trigger "By battle" for the defending player

4) Create Sub-Steps that determine that the Turn Player gets to trigger his effect first (and allow a response chain to happen) before even beginning to resolve the defending Player's Creature effect.

5) Separate the effects somewhat and give them a Speed Tier. There are three "triggers":

Reverse (flipped face up): Is the first to trigger in a battle.

Defeat: Defeat is after the attacking Player successfully wins a battle but is before that Creature is sent to the discard pile. It is always an effect of the attacking player, never the defending player and is the second to trigger in a battle.

By Battle*: Always a defending Creature's trigger. This triggers once the card is in the discard pile. Always the last to trigger in this tier system.

*I might change the name to something thematic like "Bury" because "By battle" might be easily confused with Defeat(ed).

Any preferences or suggestions?

Any and all help appreciated!

AuraDragon

The design is flawed; while writing this comment I thought about your predicament from a few ways and that was always my conclusion due to the vague rules and this limitation you've set.

Maybe these are poor examples, but "When this creature destroys a creature by battle, you may do X" shouldn't be able to be activated since it's not an opponent's action, no?, and regardless "When this creature is destroyed by battle, you may do Y" doesn't specify that it has to be an opponent's attack.

In Magic it is very clear when a Sorcery and an Instant (the closest cousins to your effects, from what I can tell) can be played, but your effects sound almost more like triggered effects...  maybe that's what you were going for with the Reaction effects.

If you wish to keep with what you've got though, I'd say that "When this creature destroys a creature by battle, you may do X" should be changed to something like "ACTION: If this creature destroyed a creature by battle this turn, blah blah etc", as I believe the destroying of the creature is the turn player's action and thus cannot be REACT'd to by the turn player.  Also for readability maybe "When this creature is destroyed by battle, you may do Y" should be "REACT: When this defending creature is destroyed by battle, blah blah etc", leaving out the "you may" since it explicitly states that it is a REACT and activation is optional, unless you plan on making mandatory effects at which point slap "you may" back in.  :P

3XXXDDD

Reactions do react to specific effects.

You might be right. What I wanted to do was keep "Actions" only applicable to your own Action Phase. Not to your combat phase. What I could possibly do, is remove phases (or at least that Action during Action Phase only limitation) and allow the attacking player Creatures be Actions that have to meet a condition before they're activated.

Eg.

Creature X Attacks  (During this turn, if this creature destroyed another creature by battle, you may) & destroys Creature Y (When this card is destroyed as a result of battle, by your Opponent, you can do stuff).

The Action is the defeat of the Monster by the Turn Player
The defeated Monsters trigger as a reaction during the same time (and the opponent can trigger any other of his reactions that meet timing there)
You go back and forth like any response.

Afterwards, when finished, the turn player now has priority back and may choose to use his Creature's Action Effect (if it is still on the field) because it has met its prerequirments.