Star Lords

[Covenance]

So what follows shall be my running topic for our Star Lords TCG Project.

My first entry for review is a basic card concept for "Tactic Cards."  Although it is "Artful" its purpose is for Tactic Mechanisms therefore it would have just gotten lost in the Art section of the forum.

Tactic decks for Star Fighters have real world dog fighting techniques on many of the cards.

Proper credit for research in this goes to Combat Aircraft, specifically in their Air to Air Tactics section.  What can happen atmospherically will theoretically happen in non atmospheric Zero G conditions.  So, these are GREAT tactics opportunities for game play.

Curious as to what you think about this Gwago.

Please remember, I whipped up these graphics very quickly and certainly do not represent what will be in the final product - it's "rough."  What is important here is what you all think about incorporating cards like this.

What are your thoughts folks?

- CC

[Trevor]

I think you are designing a card with it being far too oversized, and this throws of the ratios of things like font sizes and spacing. Try designing things with a small resolution, like 200 pixels wide, and see how things look.

[Covenance]

I was shocked when it posted too to be honest.

My psd file is exactly 2.75" x 3.75" (.25 for bleed and trim) - so not sure what the deal is.

My color theory class specifically hammered it into my head; 300 for CMYK final print, and 72 for online usage.

Perhaps that's why... I posted the 300.  I thought this was only related to visual aesthetics / resolution... it changes the size too?  ... haven't had this happen before.   

Other than all that, what do you think of what you have heard so far Trevor?

- CC

[Trevor]

It's unreadable when you crop out the border and make it 200x289. Aside from that, there are several other issues. For example, you don't allot space for useful things like collector info, rarity info, set info, copyright info, artist name, and other things typically found in a well designed modern CCG template. The card title seems like its far larger than it needs to be. The design is really simplistic, which might have its place as a style, but I think in the execution of your template this simplicity comes across as more of a lack of being "slick".

Check out http://lackeyccg.com/ccgdesign.html

Compare your template to magic's:

Your template is bigger, bit a lot harder to read.

These are just criticisms of the template. I'd have to get a lot more into the game design to comment about mechanics.

[Covenance]

I know that the card is lacking in a lot of that detail.  I was referring more to the use of this kind of card.  I haven't seen actual dogfighting tactics in use as "Cards" per se so the concept interests me as a viable "flavor" of SL.

I'm concentrating more on the mechanics right now before investing heavily in the artistic avenue - so I simply threw up a "concept" for visual reference when I talk about "Dogfighting Tactics Cards."  There is no point on even starting to flesh out how a card is laid out until the rule set has been properly vetted.

There are too many attributes in SL as it currently stands: Targeting, ECM, ECCM, Weapon Type, Attack Strength, Attack Speed, Shields, Armor, Countermeasures, Ship Speed, Maneuverability, Pilot, Weakness, Strength, Tactics Allowed List... I mean - the concept was supposed to be a card game but the current iteration of it is so weighted down and bloated that I went searching for a fresh take from fresh minds that aren't sterile from sitting in a living room every other day theorycrafting... so, here I am. 

Thanks!

- CC

[Trevor]

As far as the flavor goes, I think you need to have it be more of a fantastic sort of genre masquerading as sci-fi, like Star Wars. I say this because you are trying to implement aerial maneuvers from 20th century planes in futuristic spaceships, which really doesn't make sense. Starfighters are cool, but the maneuvers they do are totally impractical in space combat. Consider laser cannons which can be aimed with extreme precision and have no travel time (well, c of course). Aerial maneuvers would be pointless if neither dodging nor positioning were useful.

[Covenance]

True; but Plasma, rail guns, and standard projectiles are still physical armament that takes time to travel and therefore requires strategic positioning and counter maneuvers...

I guess it's all in the take.

Regarding your other point, I had thought a "Steampunk" Space Combat style setting; however although I am a fan of the genre I don't have true "passion" for it, therefore my productivity would stagnate quickly.  (If you don't know your own personal Strengths and Weaknesses then you spend forever and a day just spinning your wheels).

I have always liked the Rose Trilogy (hope I?m getting that right ? it?s been close to 2 decades since I?ve read those books) with Margaret Weisman regarding her "Swords and Ships" setting.  Perhaps I should look into this more ? it would certainly free up a lot of preconceived restraints.

Thank you again Trevor.  I appreciate everyone?s input - truly.

- CC

[Typherion]

I've been dealing with my own template issues recently, so I might just make a quick comment about something that struck me.

The rules text and flavor text may be more effective if you switched their positions. The rules are more important during the game, which means players will probably want to read them first. By having the flavor text on top, you force players to read text that isn't necessary before they can get to the necessary information. I think having the rules on top will be more effective.

[Covenance]

Thank you very much Typherion.  That one I had not thought of but should have been a no brainer.  Noted in the GDock. 

[gwago]

There are too many attributes in SL as it currently stands: Targeting, ECM, ECCM, Weapon Type, Attack Strength, Attack Speed, Shields, Armor, Countermeasures, Ship Speed, Maneuverability, Pilot, Weakness, Strength, Tactics Allowed List... I mean - the concept was supposed to be a card game but the current iteration of it is so weighted down and bloated that I went searching for a fresh take from fresh minds that aren't sterile from sitting in a living room every other day theorycrafting... so, here I am. 

Ohhhh that's scary... one thing I've been reflecting a lot more on recently is simplicity. A CCG is never going to take off if it's too complex... I've been having the same problem with a card game of mine where I was getting too bogged down by trying to make it as realistic as possible. But at one point I think you have to just step away and get an objective perspective. In my case, I realized that no one would care about all the details but me so I threw them all out.

I'm very curious to see what kind of combat rules you've got set up. I don't know much about dogfighting, but I'm guessing most of it would be centered around getting the upper hand on your opponent before taking the shot; if so, my suggestion to you is to boil it down as low as it can go while still keeping the initial idea intact. You can add some of that complexity back after, but I think making it as simple as possible will help you out a lot.

Another thing I've been using is Keywords; consider something like the Cthulhu CCG, which doesn't have a stat for toughness / stamina. All the characters are equally vulnerable, unless they have the keyword Toughness +X, in which case they can take more wounds. Saves having that stat on all characters.

I also think your flavor is fine. Very curious to see where you're going with this!

[nickyinprogress]

Love how it's not another game about something fighting head on with something, the use of aerial maneuvers and tactics could be a very interesting gameplay mechanic.

The rest of my comments however, are similar to ones that've been said.

1. The card template. Other than the ones already said, think of the card like a poster. You need a hierarchy of information. More important info has to stand out. e.g. Reduce space taken up by title, blow up the technical statistics, keep flavor small and minimal. People play it for the game, not the flavor, despite it (imo) being the most fun part of making a game.

2. Current attributes seem... scary. Focus on the best thing you have. Your game could easily be viable with just a speed and attack stat. Just think of a real pilot and what attributes he needs to track. The whole game could be just about balancing stats for the optimal strategy.

[Covenance]

Thank you all very much for your inputs!

I'm spending the next few days ironing some things out and doing some 'local' playtesting.  You guys have given me some ideas to try out.