Supporter cards in Pokemon TCG

[CCGer]

Do you guys like mechanics like supporter cards in the Pokemon CCG? Supportr cards are cards that allow you to draw more cards or search for cards from your deck and stuff like that. You can only use one supporter card per turn.

Personally, I think these supporter cards will reduce quite some amount of luck factor in a CCG, which is a good thing to me. So, what do you guys think about it?

[Tokimo]

Something that you can use one per turn (with no additional cost) to draw more cards is too good.

Tutors are okay, but they need to be expensive. (Look at Diabolic tutor in magic which is long since forever out of print). All of the modern tutor cards are expensive, or extremely limited in how they work (like placing the searched card on top of the library instead of in your hand).

As a general class of cards, I feel they are way to easy to make too cheap, which makes them unreasonably good.

[Ripplez]

if you make a good card costlier it just winds up being too prohibitive to play. i prefer cards like the tutor from ravnica. it let you search for a card for 1B and put it in your hand, but it only searched for cards already in your hand

some cards are good but just get costed into unplayability. there should be a different kind of balance than that. the reason i say they get costed into unplayability because at higher converted mana costs, they start competing with other cards in the deck for mana. rather than around the early game, they have to be played closer to the mid game, at which point spending your mana for a card in your hand mightnt be appealing

[CCGer]

Something that you can use one per turn (with no additional cost) to draw more cards is too good.

Tutors are okay, but they need to be expensive. (Look at Diabolic tutor in magic which is long since forever out of print). All of the modern tutor cards are expensive, or extremely limited in how they work (like placing the searched card on top of the library instead of in your hand).

As a general class of cards, I feel they are way to easy to make too cheap, which makes them unreasonably good.

I actually don't see why will supporter cards be too good. If you can use them, your opponent can too. In fact it has no colour, so any deck can use them. I personally feel that this mechanic can make the game more strategic. In fact it can reduce resource screw which is a common problem in Magic.
This can also help reduce siyuations where you only see the top 20 cards of your 60 cards deck and then it is game over.

For those who play Pokemon out there will have know that resource screw is very less common if compared to MTG. Pokemon TCG can also be far more dynamic than MTG up to some point. The only thing is that it is heavily restricted the evolution chains.

I think if MTG were to use mechanics like this, the game can be much more fun to play.

[netfirecat]

For me, the appeal in a card game is the balance. If my resouces aren't balanced with the deck in either direction, i'm screwed. If you take that need for balance out, you ruin most of the deckbuilders' strength.

[Tokimo]

A card that draws cards for little or no cost is too good because ALL decks should use the maximum number of that card. Any card that would get used in every deck is too good, as it's clearly the best card in the game without peers.

The solution to Magic's resource screw is to have a spell deck and a land deck, the game would still play exactly the same, just less obnoxious about giving you two lands while you died.

[CCGer]

A card that draws cards for little or no cost is too good because ALL decks should use the maximum number of that card. Any card that would get used in every deck is too good, as it's clearly the best card in the game without peers.

The solution to Magic's resource screw is to have a spell deck and a land deck, the game would still play exactly the same, just less obnoxious about giving you two lands while you died.

But if you play Pokemon, you will know that there are tons of different supporters in the game and you just can't possibily have all of them in one deck.
In fact, the latest suppporters are actually quite balanced if compared to the older ones. For example, Bebe's search is currently the only pokemon searching supporter card that is legal in modified format.

Bebe's search effect is as followed:" Choose a card in your hand and put on top of your deck. Search your deck for a Pokemon card, show it to your opponent and put it into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards."

Now you see, to get a Pokemon that you need (either basic or evolution) you will need to give up one card in your hand. In many Pokemon games that I play, I find myself getting into thought challenging situations when I use this card. So, it is not really that broken.

There will not be any best card when it come to having supporter cards. Each of them are usefull in their own way and it can be hard to decide which suits a deck better.

As for the spell deck and land deck idea in MTG, I think it is very interesting. But in this thread, I just want to know how you guys think about the supporter card mechanics in all CCGs in general. There maybe doubts wether will it be good for MTG, but it has certainly serve the Pokemon TCG very well.

[Ripplez]

to clarify, you can only play one supporter per turn, on yor turn. each supporter is meant, in design at least, to have this sort of "broken" capability. the need to play card drawing has to go hand-in-hand with the fact that you wont be able to play any other supporters for that turn

[Tokimo]

Paying a card to search is expensive, and actually in my opinion a rather hefty cost.

I think supporters sound an awful lot like they're reintroducing the problem with land in a different way. Here's a class of card that's just awesome. Now, if you draw too many you choke and die. If you don't draw enough you lose serious card advantage to your opponent and die.

That being said, the card you actually described to me isn't that awesome and doesn't even really seem like it needs to be limited to once per turn at that cost.

[CCGer]

Paying a card to search is expensive, and actually in my opinion a rather hefty cost.

I think supporters sound an awful lot like they're reintroducing the problem with land in a different way. Here's a class of card that's just awesome. Now, if you draw too many you choke and die. If you don't draw enough you lose serious card advantage to your opponent and die.

That being said, the card you actually described to me isn't that awesome and doesn't even really seem like it needs to be limited to once per turn at that cost.

Actually, Bebe's Search is needed to be this way. In Pokemon, being able to search your deck for an evolved Pokemon or Pokemon level X (new mechanic, still very recent) is antremendous advantage since almost all decks rely on the final evolution of their Pokemon to carry out their combos or strategy.

In the past, there is Celio's network where you can just search your deck for a Pokemon and put in into your hand without any draw backs. So, when you have Celio in your hand, there is no reason for you to not use it unless your set up is complete. The game then becomes a race where who ever get their Ceilo's first wins.

This is different for Bebe's Search. While you may search your deck for your key Pokemon card and get one step closer in completing your set up, you must give up one of your cards in your hand. Now, you will have to choose wisely because the loss of even one basic energy card, which seems harmless if you already have enough energy in your hand, can come and haunt you later. This happens quite often especially to those lesser skill players. That is why, there are many reasons for you to not use Bebe's even if you have it in your hand. The loss of a key card for another key card can be very tricky.

The thing is that, in MTG, if both players can get their key cards easily, will the game boils down to a test of skills and not screws? Luck will play a lesser role and victory will be decided on wether you want to block an attack or let it through, to counter now or later and other tactical stuff like that. Combo decks will also work better too. In fact the game might change in such a way where there is no combo deck, only agro or control, and both of them have their own combos.

Do you guys thing? 

[Tokimo]

I think if the spells are too good it's going to warp the game so that everyone is using them. IMO that's a bad thing. I think if the spells aren't good enough, no one will use them. I think if they're correctly balanced some decks will use them. The third choice is the current state of magic actually. People use them, but they're not universal.