Research & Development: CCG centered around fusion [Working Title]

[nickyinprogress]

Research & Development (RnD) [Working Title]

RnD is a game where players take the role of god-like creatures who spend their lives creating, testing and destroying universes, using unique creatures with combined traits to battle under grueling test conditions.

Main Mechanics
RnD's different playstyle includes several features:

• Creature Halves: Single creature cards are not single creatures, but half. Combine left-halves with right-halves to create a whole creature, or risk putting a cripped half-creature into battle.
• Level Up: Once each turn, you may put one card from your hand to the level up zone and turn it sideways. When you have 5 in the level up area, you may take a card with a level up effect and put it on top of those 5 cards. That effect is now available permanently (unless otherwise stated). There's a maximum of 3 levels, and after advancing a level you create a new stack of 5 below it.
• Deck as Life Points: When damage hits the player's life points, it discards that amount of cards instead.

Full rules here: Download Rulebook v.0
File also attached to this post.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

[3XXXDDD]

As far as Halves being combined, you should totally look into the Synchro/Xyz Cards of Yu-Gi-Oh.

You could also look into grading up games such as Cardfight!! Vanguard & Pokemon.

[nickyinprogress]

I'm trying to avoid grade-ups. I played Pokemon a lot and know how Vanguard is played. An issue there is that if I end up with higher grade cards in my hand, it's a dead hand.

FIRST POST REVISED.

[Cyrus]

Will the game have instant-type cards? If so, when you gain a level you could place an instant on top of the stack, and now you can play it every turn instead of just once. Does that make sense?

As far as card halves I think making a bunch of generic ones for each side and letting people literally build their own attack force would be cool (so you could do strong + strong, or strong + evasion, or evasion + utility, etc).

Cool ideas! Hope to see it go far

[3XXXDDD]

Will the game have instant-type cards? If so, when you gain a level you could place an instant on top of the stack, and now you can play it every turn instead of just once. Does that make sense?

As far as card halves I think making a bunch of generic ones for each side and letting people literally build their own attack force would be cool (so you could do strong + strong, or strong + evasion, or evasion + utility, etc).

Cool ideas! Hope to see it go far

That actually sounds like an awesome idea, kind of like how you craft your experience points into Characters in Strategy games (like various MMOs)

[nickyinprogress]

Will the game have instant-type cards? If so, when you gain a level you could place an instant on top of the stack, and now you can play it every turn instead of just once. Does that make sense?

As far as card halves I think making a bunch of generic ones for each side and letting people literally build their own attack force would be cool (so you could do strong + strong, or strong + evasion, or evasion + utility, etc).

Cool ideas! Hope to see it go far

That actually sounds like an awesome idea, kind of like how you craft your experience points into Characters in Strategy games (like various MMOs)

Alright, I'll address that one by one. Really excited about the feedback btw

Instant-type cards as level up powerups
I wanted to make a new type of card called Philosophy. To fit the theme, Philosophy is basically one of the gods, and since they oversee the test conditions of the battle, they would decide extra effects that happen in battle. A card will have 3 effects, each will trigger according to which level pile they put this card on. You're not allowed multiple copies of this card.

However, adding another type of card makes the game harder to balance. These cards will be outside the deck though, but that still means you cannot use instant effects as level up powerups. If I do use instants, I have to balance them so that it won't be overpowering when it can be used every turn.

Any suggestions on this? Keep the new Philosophy cards or just use instant effects as the powerups.

making a bunch of generic ones for each side and letting people literally build their own attack force would be cool
So if I'm correct, you're suggestion the cards just be illustrations, but players decide their stats and abilities? That is a possibility, but I'd like to avoid tokens and such. The game already plans to use dice, and that's complicated enough. Though if you're worried about how interesting the cards will be, I'd like your suggestions on that.

The cards have an element, health, attack, defense and an ability. Stats may be as low as 0, and a creature may not have an ability. Since there are no restrictions to combine cards, you're free to create a tank (hi-atk, hi-def, but no abilities), or mix abilities that let you be an attacker that heals, an attacker that drains health, an attacker that sacrifices itself to save other cards, etc. Would that be interesting enough?

Since creature halves have elements, you don't end up with just a fire creature, but perhaps a fire-water, fire-light, but also fire-fire. There has to be a strategic element to choosing what element goes with who at what time. A simple solution is to have abilities or effects that rewards certain combinations, but maybe a card type acts sort of like equipment, a skill you teach a creature. Example: the Fireball skill is equipped to a fire-water creature, and only does standard damage, but when equipped to a fire-fire creature, you get a chance to burn the opponent.

Evasion
I see a new stat being mentioned. The current combat mechanic is as follows:

Creatures have an attack & defense stat.
In the battlefield, attackers are upright and defenders turned upside down.
When it's your turn, you choose the target for each of your attackers, either attackers of the opponent or the player. You cannot attack your opponent's defenders directly.
When you attack attackers, it's your attack vs. their defense.
When you attack the player, it's your attack vs. the defender's defense.

How these stats damage, I'm thinking of borrowing the die roll mechanic of Summoner Wars.
If the attack stat of a creature is 2, he rolls 2 dice when he attacks.
Only rolls of 3 or higher is a hit, less is a miss. Defender also rolls to see how much damage he's blocked (so a creature with a defense of 5 will not shut down the attackers).
With evasion, it could be another stat in that it decides the minimal roll value to count a hit.

Questions:
- More stats = more work to do. Will it be too much work to balance?
- The same evasion value for attack AND defense or separate? Cause separate means double the balancing work

[Drackthar]

I think this is a really interesting idea... The mixing and matching 2 halves sounds really interesting. I can see how it would make the player feel kind of like a mad scientist =P

The instant type cards I think are a good idea. Maybe not as level up mechanics though. I think a good way to implement them would be like the Gods messing with the whole game. That is, maybe cards that would release a noxious gas throughout the entire battlefield or maybe a rogue creature or something. I think they should be cards that mess up both players instead of just one. This could add strategy to it because maybe your opponent has more stuff than you so it would hurt them more or maybe you are willing to sacrifice your one beefy guy to kill your opponents beefy guy.

I don't know how I feel about the evasion stat... I think it would add unnecessary complications to the game, especially with the current combat system (which I like).

The combat system you mentioned (rolling 2 dice for a creature with 2 attack, etc.) really interests me... It reminds me a lot of Risk to be honest. I'm not sure if it adds a little bit too much luck though (not having played the game I can't tell). A good die roll could change the entire game around for the losing player or a bad roll could punt the game for a winning player. That's how it seems to me at least but you probably have a better idea of whether luck is too much of a factor or not.

Just my thoughts. Hope I helped =D

[nickyinprogress]

I think this is a really interesting idea... The mixing and matching 2 halves sounds really interesting. I can see how it would make the player feel kind of like a mad scientist =P

The instant type cards I think are a good idea. Maybe not as level up mechanics though. I think a good way to implement them would be like the Gods messing with the whole game. That is, maybe cards that would release a noxious gas throughout the entire battlefield or maybe a rogue creature or something. I think they should be cards that mess up both players instead of just one. This could add strategy to it because maybe your opponent has more stuff than you so it would hurt them more or maybe you are willing to sacrifice your one beefy guy to kill your opponents beefy guy.

I don't know how I feel about the evasion stat... I think it would add unnecessary complications to the game, especially with the current combat system (which I like).

The combat system you mentioned (rolling 2 dice for a creature with 2 attack, etc.) really interests me... It reminds me a lot of Risk to be honest. I'm not sure if it adds a little bit too much luck though (not having played the game I can't tell). A good die roll could change the entire game around for the losing player or a bad roll could punt the game for a winning player. That's how it seems to me at least but you probably have a better idea of whether luck is too much of a factor or not.

Just my thoughts. Hope I helped =D

First of all I need to fix a "typo". It's gonna be called Accuracy, not Evasion, since I decided to apply it to defense die rolls as well. Whether or not I'll include Accuracy depends on the testing, but IF I include it, it opens up this possibility: I can make inaccurate berserkers or very reliable but weak attackers. Most have an accuracy of 3, the rest ranging from 2-4 with a few inaccurate/accurate exceptions (maybe through abilities)

As for too much luck, I have to test that and change the average accuracy of creatures. An accuracy of 3 means you'll only miss 30% of the time, though the opponent still rolls for defense. Still, only testing will tell. I chose 3 cause it's been done before by Summoner Wars, and I chose this combat system as a bit of luck adds excitement.

As for the cards messing up both battlefields, that was my original idea. Originally, before each game, players choose some effects that will be applied throughout the game. I scrapped that, but then with this new level up mechanic, I forgot I could've reused this. Thanks for reminding me.

Gives risk (and I always love pros & cons) in choosing which powerup to use, since both players can use it, especially dangerous if both players use the same strategy. Whether or not to have unique cards is another matter. Sacrificing big guys to kill the other big guy is a nice example

EDIT: What about best of both worlds? Some overpowered level up powerups affect both players. E.g. poisoning everyone in play. Lesser powered powerups just affect the player. E.g. a small defense increase

[Drackthar]

I like your edit. That seems like a good way to balance it. When I thought of it I had hunger games in mind (I only watched the movie) I don't know if you saw it but what I had in mind was when they released the mutts or when they threw fireballs at the players. Stuff like that would be cool...

[Typherion]

I'm not sure if it's what you're aiming for, but I had some ideas for names and themes.

Fusing creatures together made me think of Alchemy. Those crazy alchemists tried mixing stuff together to create an elixir to grant eternal life, turning cheap metals into gold, and creating an artifical human called a homonculus.

More relevantly, in fiction they also tried combining different animals to try and create hybrids called chimaeras. If you're interested, I recommend looking into the anime Fullmetal Alchemist. Lot's of creepy stuff in there.

Also, I noticed someone making a game on BoardGameGeek that might interest you. It's about dinosaur cyborgs fighting each other and you can graft lasers and rockets onto them.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/802421/biomechanic-dino-battles-the-ccg-looking-for-pla

[nickyinprogress]

Big difference between the Dino thing you showed me is exactly the sort of thing I was going for to make it super unique. They still use single creatures and then add enhancements, not half creatures that'll not be very effective when played alone. That DOES look like an awesome game though Gonna download their rulebook.

For names and themes, I still don't know about names, but as for themes, I'm trying to avoid that story. Yes I'm familiar with Fullmetal Alchemist, watched Brotherhood start to finish, it was crazy good, but that's exactly the issue. I'm not making an FMA game, I'm making my own original one, hence I want an original story, and I don't think god-like scientist creatures who experiment with universes as easy as they experiment with lab rats and chemicals isn't an overused concept.

The name is still a working title, though I picked Research & Development cause it was different, better than Hybrid CCG or Quantum Fusion or whatever. Also, it abbreviated nicely, R&D, easy to remember.

Thanks for the comment, especially the Dino thing XD Will look into it

[nickyinprogress]

Question: Persistent vs. Temporary Damage

There are pros and cons for each. I prefer temporary damage myself, but what do you guys think?

A refresher on the combat mechanic:
Attack & defense values = the amount of dice you roll when you attack / defend, while accuracy = the minimal amount of die result to count a successful attack / defend.
The battlefield fits 4 whole creatures (8 cards), any amount can be assigned either in attack / defend mode.
When you attack, you have two choices: Attack the opponent's deck or attack the opponent's creatures who are in attack mode.
If you attack the deck directly, your attack is defended by the opponent's creatures in defend mode.
If you attack the creatures, your attack is defended by the creatures in attack mode.
Damaging the deck means discarding = damage.

Why I want temporary damage
I don't have to nerf the damage & boost the health and no need to track damage. Starting with zero damage each time gives a level playing field, leaving a lot to skill instead of ganging up & wearing down the opponent. Plus, there's plenty of permanent damage to your deck.

BUT, I don't know how it'll deal with poison and deteriorate.

Deteriorate
A key element in this game is fusing creature halves. You COULD play half creatures, but there must be a consequence so players have initiative to fuse. My idea was deteriorate, in which when only half a creature is played, it's unstable, like literally placing only half a creature to battle.

Originally, deteriorate works like poison, 1 damage at the start of each turn. But with temporary damage, poison doesn't work. Ideas?

Nerf attack? defense? Nerf health? accuracy?
Make them die instantly in the next turn? (Is it too harsh?)

Poison
No consistent damage, but I don't want poison to heal each turn. Ideas?

Nerf more stats? Defense is interesting to nerf, and maybe burn nerfs attack?
A consistent damage, but doesn't stack (e.g. creature always has 1 less health, as if you nerfed health)

Accuracy
Okay this is more to aesthetics. Since accuracy = minimal roll required to count as a hit, that would mean a higher accuracy = a lower chance of hitting. Any alternative names?

A refresher you ask? An accuracy of 3 means:
If you roll a die for attacking, results of 3, 4, 5 or 6 count as a hit. 1, 2 is a miss.
Though there is still the option of not having accuracy at all

OLD EDIT, skip reading if you want:
But even without different accuracy values...
The combat system calls for rolling dice. BUT, say that a creature of attack 3 vs. defense 3. That means a 30% chance to miss is made even greater with the 60% chance you hit, but get defended against. 18% success rate? Is my math right?

Should I just remove the dice combat mechanic altogether?
Should I remove defense altogether?
But if I do, I have to re-do the entire combat mechanic TT__TT

Solutions?

SUPER EDIT!!
NEW COMBAT SYSTEM that solves the other problems. Remove defense entirely? Defenders defend with their health instead.

EDIT AGAIN: Though that means, damage is not permanent? Aww geez...

[Drackthar]

You could have deteriorate be cumulative. So turn one they take 1 damage and turn 2 they take 2 damage etc.

It not only works to slowly kill the creature but also to slowly weaken the creature to the opponents attacks. So maybe a tough half creature would be put out and slowly whittled down to a point where a weaker creature (although a full one) could easily dispatch of the tougher one.

Poison could work as a poison on a certain stat ie one poison could weaken attack while another weakens health, another accuracy, etc.

Just my ideas

[nickyinprogress]

First post has been updated.

With a version zero Rulebook, I'd some some feedback. Some of the finer details such as status ailments haven't been covered, but that's not too big of an issue now.

To address my previous question:
Damage is still temporary, and the health stat has been removed.
When you attack, you roll dice = Attack stat. Results of 3 or more are a hit (i.e. an Attack of 2 = potential damage of 0-2)
When you defend, you don't roll, it's absolute.
You can gang up against one creature to bypass their possibly high defense, and instead of attacking one-by-one, the Attack of all participating attackers are combined.

The rest is pretty developed.
Please check out the Research & Development Rulebook and give me feedback. Thank you.

Can't make any promises, but feedback has been so helpful, than when I'm in the process of making a test deck, I may let anyone who helps me here design their own creature (as per guidelines of course, it can't be overpowered obviously)

[Typherion]

Just had a look through your rulebook and wanted to give some feedback.

The backstory and preparations for the game all seem very clear and easy to understand, but the section on determining player turn order seems weird and could be more concise.

You have a die roll determine whether player A or B starts first but you still need to determine which player is A and which is B. Maybe just have both players roll and higher roll can choose to start or go second?

For drawing and redrawing cards at the start, if creatures are super important to have in your opening hand, how about a rule that if you have a starting hand with no creatures, you can reveal it to your opponent and then draw a completely new hand?

I'm a fan of the system where the deck is effectively your life points. I think it's good that you are using the discarded cards for something, but I'm a bit worried that your system seems to require maintaining the order of cards in the discard zone, which could cause hiccups in games.

Other Random Ideas
Will it be possible to get cards back from the discard pile? Milling as a win condition is fine but it can suck when your favourite card gets milled and you never have the chance to play it.

Maybe you could design the template of creature cards as actual left and right cards, or else make it so the cards actually combine visually when played together like that really big monster in a Magic joke set that has two halves.

I'm not sure about detieriorate as a rule. It seems to say to players "fuse these creatures so that they don't suck" when it might be better to say "fuse these creatures because then they become super awesome". Basically just rewarding players for fusing rather than punishing them for not fusing.