Disciples 3: Renaissance - the CCG

[Malagar]

Hey guys,
its been ages since my last post. well, my love for ccg design is one thing but the demanding real-life another. okay, so i think its save to say that our community project is dead - maybe its true that a single "author" is required to build a game and having too many cooks filling the kitchen just leads nowhere. this being said - i wasn't inactive over the last few month. to make a long story short: i took what i learned from the very rewarding community project thread and started working on a little project on my own. and here it is, the first glimpse of Disciples: Renaissance - the customizable card game.

ORIGIN
This CCG is based on the not-so-popular computer game series Disciples from the late 90s (Discples 1: Sacred Lands and Disciples 2: Dark Prophecy). The game recently received a third version called Disciples 3: Renaissance. Despite its mediocre success, I am a big fan of the series and decided to turn it into a customizable card game. Please note that this is just a fan-game, i dont claim any of the gameworld, artwork or the logo my own! You can get more information about the computer game here:

http://www.disciples3.com
http://www.strategyplanet.com/disciples2/

OVERVIEW
This is a typical CCG with a few very uncommon twists to both the theme and the game mechanics. First of all, it takes place in a moody dark fantasy-gothic setting that is very detailled and features lots of nice artwork. Second i tried to alter the typical CCG gameplay to turn away from the typical land/mana/attack/spell/block concepts as much as i could. But i also had to change several aspects of the computer game in order to fit into a CCG (like removing the overworld and hex-battle-maps).

So, each player takes control of one of the five races in the game (Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Undead and Demons).  The goal is to crush your enemies and become supreme ruler of the land, this is basically done by depleting your opponents deck, but there are various ways to victory. You can deplete the deck by attacking your enemy but also by fulfilling quests that force all of your enemies to discard card from the top of their decks.

players have various actions and possibilities available during their turns. most important is building a city and maintaing a small raiding party led by a hero. these are the two main aspects of the game: city building and party grinding. in addition to that, you can bring quests, terrain, artefacts and magic spells into play to aid you.

the core of the game is combat, as you will try to attack and raid your opponents city almost every turn. parts of your troops can be assigned to attack, while the rest stays in the city to defend. a good mix of offensive and defensive tactics is required to maintain a prospering city while being strong enough to crush your foe.

ART
Im using art from all the disciples games. Most is extracted using a simple hex-editor and others are from the web. Maybe some of you already know my templating style, i have attached a sample template (without any text or numbers so far). please note that all of the art is from a computer game, so there won't be any high quality 300dpi printable cards in this game. as i plan to release it only via lackey (thus: only playable on a computer), i dont care too much about the limited art resources.

INFLUENCES
Besides the obvious computer game, this project draws inspiration from various TCGs. Of course there are aspects found in Magic: The Gathering, but this game leans more towards Legend of the five rings, Legend of the Burning sands and Warhammer: Invasion.

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More later! I am just adding a few padding posts directly under this thread. later on i will explain the core game concepts in detail. stay tuned and never stop designing!

[Malagar]

COSTS & RESOURCES
At first, the costs to bring cards into play looks very similar to Magic: The Gathering. Actually it works quite different, influenced by the Warhammer: Invasion LCG - but thats not all. So, here is how the cost of a typical card might look in the game (Please note: this is not final art):

THE CURRENCY
Its important to know that there is only one resource in the game, called gold (i had to remove the other resources from the computer game due to complexity). Whenever a card requires resources to be activated or brought into play, its gold. Whenever a card produces resources, its always gold - nothing else.

READING THE COST
Card costs consists of two different parts as shown above: The first number is the "core cost" and shows how much gold you have to pay to bring the card into play. The second is the "additional cost" you must pay if you dont own enough buildings of the corresponding color (again, this cost is paid in gold). The second part of the cost is the critical part that defines the system:

Every card is aligned to one of the five factions in the game and each faction is color-coded (elves for example are green). The "additional cost" can be reduced by controlling buildings of the same color, otherwise the card gets more and more expensive.

Please note that you require buildings to reduce the cost. Other cards like creatures or items do not count. It is then reduced by 1 point per building of the same color you have in play.

Of course you can mix several factions in your deck (like dwarves+elves or humans+dwarves), but then the chances to have enough buildings of the matching color in play reduce drastically.

Usually, when paying the full cost for a card, its a bit too expensive. When paying only the core cost of a card its a bit too cheap. When paying -1 of the full cost (= you control one building of the same color), the cost is just perfectly balanced. As you start with a capital of one of the colors in play, you will always be able to bring cards of the same color for the best possible price into play.

Examples:

* Without any elf (green) buildings in play, the card above would cost us 6 gold.
* With 1 elf (green) building (for example the elf capitol) in play it would cost us 5 gold.
* With 3 or more elf (green) buildings in play, it would cost us 3 gold.

GENERATING RESOURCES
The main difference in this game is, that the available resources do not automatically increase every turn. You begin the game with your capital in play, and every capital is able to provide you with 3 gold (+/-X depending on the race) per turn. So instead of gaining additional resources, the trick is to reduce the cost of your cards by controlling enough buildings of the same color.

But, of course there are resource providing cards (otherwise you would get "mana screwed" sooner or later on). These cards are called "City Districts" and provide you with 1 additonal gold per turn. City districts are aligned next to your capitol card and can have buildings attached. You have to build them in order to get more resources and increase your city.

Furthermore, all basic units cost 3 gold and all capitols provide their players with at least 3 gold. as the capitol matches the basic unit colors (blue capitol for humans, matches blue human squire card), the gold cost for all basic units is reduced by -1. this allows the player to bring 1 basic unit per turn into play, and still save one gold for later. Gold is stored on your capitol card.

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More aboutcity districts, buildings and the other card types later. hope you like it so far!

PS: I have not fully decided if this game will be "a single city" or "an empire with 3-5 cities". this is only a flavor thing as the rules are already quite finished. I like the single city approach more, but the computer game features an empire instead. also, in legend of the five rings there are provinces, while in legend of the burning sands there where city districts (i liked legend of the burning sands more). Any comments on this are welcome!

[Malagar]

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[Malagar]

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[Malagar]

CARD ANATOMY
(Just realised this turns into some kind of development diary). I finished both the template and the cardback today, feast your eyes on the examples below - they where also added to the opening post. Especially the template is based on my older works, some of you might have seen a similar template several month ago (for a defunct game called Bloodstone). And yes, i shamelessly ripped icons from Magic: The Gaterhing. This is a free, lackey only fan-game, so i dont care. But i am willing to replace the icons as soon as i get adequate alternatives. Comments welcome!

1. Top-Middle: Card Name
2. Top-Left: Base Gold Cost
3. Below Gold Cost: Additional Gold Cost (+1 for each crystal symbol)
4. Hourglass: Initative
5. Flame: Attack (not the final artwork!)
6. Shield: Defense
7. Heart: Health
8. Middle: Card Type and Keywords
9. Card Text / Flavor Text
10. Bottom Right: Card Version (required for only updates and set revisions)

[Typherion]

I really like everything you've shown so far! It's clear that a lot of thought has gone into not just the mechanics but also the layout of the template so far.

I'd like to know more about how combat works, but it looks like all the symbols on the card flow from top to bottom nicely. So once the card is in play, I imagine Initiative determines when cards get to act, Attack determines damage, Defense reduces damage, and Health is depleted by any remaining damage?

The resource system seems really cool and I imagine the game will really speed up once players have a few buildings in play. I'm not familiar with the computer game, but maybe you could link certain building cards with different types of units. So maybe having a Temple in play lets you pay gold to search your deck for a priest or something? You probably already have some plans for buildings I guess.

The only things I'm not keen on are the flame symbol for representing Attack, which you mentioned is only placeholder, and the white rules and flavour text. Also, have you considered using coloured symbols instead of black and white?

[Malagar]

Thank you for your reply Typherion,
Templating isnt too difficult if you have access to the right art resources (like in the case of the Disciples computer game). This is why i love copying existing games - there is already so much stuff available.

Yes, the attack icon will be changed, the icons will be color coded later on and then card text will be turned to black (did already, just forgot to do that before taking the card picture).

Your question regarding combat:

First of all, i am trying to stick as close to the original as possible, but its just not possible every time (the game uses movement on a map etc.). Therefore, several things had to be changed - for good - as i hope.

Combat is very complicated in my CCG version, this is because the computer game is also combat focused. Almost the whole game is centered around creature combat - but compared to Magic: The Gathering, there are no out-of-combat-influences (like instants, sorceries or enchantments) - it all comes from the creature skills alone. this is why i made the combat system a tad more complex compared to other ccgs (i will update the padding post above later on to explain the system in detail).

Combat Overview

<1.> During your turn, you can choose any number of creatures and attack.
<2.> you always attack your opponents city, hopefully destroying buildings.
<3.> if not blocked, excess damage against the city is applied to your opponents deck (capitol).
<4.> but, most of the time your opponent will choose creatures to block your attack.

<5.> when blocked, the war parties meet outside the city to do battle.
<6.> the party with the higher total Initative (INI) may play a terrain card from hand, it affects the battle and is discarded afterwards.
<7.> the defender may now form pairs of cards where each attacking creatures must at least be blocked by one defending creature. you can only assign more than one defender when all attackers got already assigned to one card. you can also decide not to block one, some or all attackers or leave one, some or all of your cards out of battle. All blocked attackers that wish to strike are tapped as usual.

<8.> the formed "blocking pairs" now battle in order of their INI, where the card with the higher INI rating strikes first. does the other card die before having a chance to strike back, it is discarded and therefore not allowed to strike back.
<8a.> When striking a card deals damage equal to its attack (ATK) rating to the defender.
<8b.> A defenders Defense (DEF) rating reduces the damage dealt, the rest is deducted from its health (HP) rating.
<8c.> Damage in this game is permanent, use tokens (red glass beads are best) to represent damage on units.

9. The trick is that many units feature special abilities in their card text. Often, these abilities can be triggered by tapping the card - so instead of striking, a card could make use of its ability. Its a good idea to keep certain cards out of combat and use their tapping abilities instead. but, there are countermeasures - ranged combat for example, is able to target any card in your opponents war party (and not just the blocked one).

10. all unblocked attackers that wish not to tap to produce special effects, can go on and assault your opponents city. you have to select one building and apply total damage to it, if its more than the buildings DEF, it is destroyed and discarded from play. if there is still excess damage, it is applied to your opponents deck (capitol).

*** Example: Lets take a look at the Witch Hunter card, it says it has "double strike", an ability that activates when striking without tapping the card. so after both combatants dealt their damage, the witch hunter strikes again with a tiny little initative 0 and attack 1. not much, but sometimes enough to kill an already damaged opponent (giving him a chance to strike back first, due to INI 0 of the double strike). ***

Buildings Overview
In the computer games series, there was a building tier that unlocked several troop types. I had to change that because it just does not suit a card game (I cannot play an inquisitor until i have a magistrate bulding in play - what the...??). So changes where made (again for good, hopefully):

1. I removed the tier idea completely, you can play any card at any time and are not restricted to a tier. But - as in the computer game, units are divided into several classes (like fighter, mage, archer etc.) and certain buildings support the classes. in addition to that, every building reduces the cost of all of your unit cards - so you will want to bring buildings into play. better decide wisely wich one, because you just cannot fit all types into your deck.

2. buildings are attached to "city districts" and you are limited to a maximum of 4 of these districts. city districts are the only way to gain extra gold income, but they are also vulnerable to attacks. each district can only attach a limited amount of buildings, so after a while you must expand by adding additional districts.

3. as buildings are very expensive (some cost 16 or more gold), you can always "construct" them. this is done by bringing the card face down into play, its then considered to be non-effective and has 0 defense. you can then add gold tokens to it every turn, until the cost is paid. this enables you to pay big costs step-by-step by adding a few tokens to the building every turn. once fully paid, you turn the card over and its now in play.

4. all buildings grant you special abilities, some are unique but most are aligned to one of the unit classes. the buildings also come in various "stages", so there is a small "archery range" and a bigger archery range (more costly). you can choose to "upgrade" an existing buidling by playing the advanced version on top of it, or you can play the advanced version as a extra building. upgrading makes the building cheaper by completely eliminating its "additional cost", while it has the disadvantage of being an easier target. playing it seperate costs more, but allows you to distribute your buildings over various city districts, making them more difficult to target.

so, thats the essence of buidlings: City Districts, Construction and Upgrading. Finally, whats about the class based building abilities?

5. the class based buildings expand the abilities of your units. I had to remove the "level up" feature from the standard units because it just does not suit a card game. so instead, you level up all units of the same class, by bringing the right building into play. I never liked the fact, that when you played an enchantment in magic: the gathering onto a creature, once the creature dies - the enchantment is gone. not so in this game: the building buffes all cards of the same type, no matter if already in play, or if you bring them into play later.

*** Example: Lets take a look at our Witch Hunter again. He is belonging to the "War-Priest" class , and there are three buildings that upgrade all cards of the war-priest type: Dungeon, Torture Chamber and Magistrate. In the computer game, you where forced to build these in order to bring witch hunters into play and upgrade them into better forms. not so in this game, you can play them all right away - but, to fully develop their powers, you need the buildings. every one of them adds a tiny special effect to all "War-Priest" cards you have in play. The rules are just simple enough to be easily rembered and as you have the building card right in front of you while you play, they act as simple rules reminder. So, what do they do?

<Dungeon>
Empire, Building, War-Priest
Cost: 6 core + 3 additional gold
Iron Will - Your War-Priests gain permanent immunity against MIND based attacks.
(Example: Terror - Mind based, target opponent does not strike this turn.)

<Torture Chamber>
Empire, Building, War-Priest
Cost: 9 core + 3 additional gold
Tested with Fire - Your War-Priests gain permanent +1 resistance against fire based attacks.
(Example: Sea of Flames - Fire based, deal 1 damage to every unit in the opposing war party).

<Magistrate>
Cost: 12 core + 3 additional gold
Anathema - Your War-Priests ignore the first point of enemy DEF when attacking in melee.
(Example: Good against any unit with defense >0).

...

Okay, this is already a very long post and i did not even tap into the other concepts like Heroes, Magic and Artefacts or Quests. But if you have read this wall of text, you know the basics of the game already. This is the outline, everything else are colorful additions to make the game even more diverse and fun to play. Its a complex game yes, but also one with very interesting deck-building, strategic and multiplayer capabilities. Thank you for reading!

-Malagar

[Dragoon]

Cool stuff, I have some questions however:

- Do you start with 4 city disctricts in play, or can you just play four buildings?
- How are you going to handle 'large' units (The units in disciples 1 & 2 that took 2 slots)?
- What factions are you going to use? (I see Empire, and what else?)

I like disciples, so keep up the good work!

[Malagar]

Hey Dragoon, good to hear from you again!

Yeah, i also like disciples (i have 1+2+3 and most of the expansions)

* I dont know yet, right now testing showed that its best you just start with your capitol in play, you can then attach a limited amount of buildings to your capitol (normally 3). you then have to bring new city districts into play, they are played like buildings produce 1 gold each and can attach up to 3 buildings each.

* Well, i ignore the size difference, as "stacks" of units are not limited in the card game and you are not forced to have a hero lead a "stack", i just ignore the size completely. but the creatures are there of course! all of them!

* All of the original game (using a mix of the old and new game art). Empire, Dwarves, Elves, Undead and Demons. I dont know how big the base set will be and if i will release all factions/cards - also the templates are not far enough yet. but the rules look good, i just need more time - maybe there will be only 2 factions to begin with and we an do some testing.

Glad that you like it! Im very excited about it - its a really cool setting!

PS: Is your avatar from disciples? It looks like the portrait of a Demon or Undead unit!

[Malagar]

Updated the template - see the picture below (the attribute numbers are still work in progress). Enjoy and have nice easter holidays!

[Dragoon]

Pretty cool. I would change the War-Priest type to War Priest or Priest Soldier or something like that.

Avatar is from Disciples 3. A demon Wizard. (Warlock, I guess.)

[LobsterKing]

Nice! Disciples was a fun game.

You know there was an official card game given with a specific edition of Disciples II?
I never managed to get my hands on it.

[Malagar]

Yeah i know the card game (although i dont own it, i guess there where only a few hundred copies made). you can find the rules via google and there are card scans on a russian disciples fan site. the game itself is far from being good, it uses a clumsy square board layout and has no real CCG appeal.

i added a small section for the game to my homepage, although there is not much going on right now:

http://disciples.zockergilde.net

Below you see a sample Capitol card, but i have not fully decided yet. Some thoughts about it:

* Horizontal Layout - As you start with your capitol in play, its never part of your hand or your deck, i decided to make this the only card type that has a horizontal layout
* I have not decided if the capitol cards feature any attributes other than gold income (top left), but there would be more than enough space on the card to add things (like limit of buildings for example).
* Also thought about adding a special ability to each of the capitols but currently there is only flavor/filler text - i could imagine that each race is able to search their deck for a specific card type
* capitols will never tap, so the sideway layout should not be a problem

More updates soon!

[Typherion]

Just want to say that I'm loving the new template! I think the new font and black text really make a difference. I actually checked out the Disciples games a bit because of this project.

I'm not sure I like the idea of needing more city districts to play more buildings. It seems like making you play a resource just to play another resource so you can finally play your real cards. I guess playtesting will tell if it's a problem or not.

[Malagar]

Thanks! The disciples game provide so many high quality artworks, its a joy to make templates out of them.

You should check Disciples 3 only for graphics (gameplay sucks), and Disciples 2 for gameplay (i still play it nowadays, its a milestone in turn based game history).

Well, we still have to decide about various aspects of the game, like the city districts. I got the idea from Legend of the five rings, where Holdings (buildings) are attached to provinces (cities/city districts) and the number of attach-able cards is limited.

Currently im busy with the rest of the templates and making the structure of units, buildings and the unit-building relation. I will post a series of pictures to show you how it is supposed to work.

any ideas are welcome!