LackeyCCG for Board Games

[Jynks]

As you know, I am finishing up on my Lord of the Rings Pluging for lackey, and would be really interested in maybe making a board game conversion as I love board games. I have been looking though your BSG Board Game proof of concept plugin.

Here are some initial thoughts.

1) Decks on The Table

I was just thinking, that for board games. Is it possible to make decks sit upon the table? I know you have added "shared zones" witch is like a deck that sits on the table, and not owned by anyone. I just think it would be very cool if you could place a deck upon the table itself. Maybe double click on it to draw from it or something.

2) Chitz

Many board games use Chitz. These differ from the counters that you have in lackeyccg at the moment as they need to be moved around and placed on different thing at different time. For they can define a number of things besides count, like for example location. I would like a type of Token for chitz. So you can in fact have your physical chitz you have in the game space.

3) The game board

The game board needs to be stiff. What I mean is that at the moment the way the app scales and squashes everything dosn't really work for the board. You need exact positioning, that is global to all players. This also includes cards that have things placed on it. Many games use cards as a way to build a board. Like dungeon games for example, you build the board from a deck as you play.

hang on my wife is calling me to the door we have surprise visitors.. brb.. latter

[Trevor]

As you know, I am finishing up on my Lord of the Rings Pluging for lackey, and would be really interested in maybe making a board game conversion as I love board games. I have been looking though your BSG Board Game proof of concept plugin.

Here are some initial thoughts.

1) Decks on The Table

I was just thinking, that for board games. Is it possible to make decks sit upon the table? I know you have added "shared zones" witch is like a deck that sits on the table, and not owned by anyone. I just think it would be very cool if you could place a deck upon the table itself. Maybe double click on it to draw from it or something.

2) Chitz

Many board games use Chitz. These differ from the counters that you have in lackeyccg at the moment as they need to be moved around and placed on different thing at different time. For they can define a number of things besides count, like for example location. I would like a type of Token for chitz. So you can in fact have your physical chitz you have in the game space.

3) The game board

The game board needs to be stiff. What I mean is that at the moment the way the app scales and squashes everything dosn't really work for the board. You need exact positioning, that is global to all players. This also includes cards that have things placed on it. Many games use cards as a way to build a board. Like dungeon games for example, you build the board from a deck as you play.

hang on my wife is calling me to the door we have surprise visitors.. brb.. latter

Decks on the table is more of a mental construct. If you want to think of shared zones being on the table or not, that's more of a mental abstract. Functionally, shared zones work the same as a pile on the table. Providing a visual pile of cards on the table, I don't think actually is an improvement.

I don't know exactly what you mean by chits. You can use token cards as well as counters, and some people do.

To get the functionality you are talking about, where each player sees a card of the same place, requires the functionality in place now. The play mat is stretched to form a uniform normalized square quadrant system that all players see the same. If you compare how all players see the table, it should be the same. Send some screenshots if you think things aren't working as intended.

[Jynks]

here are 3 screen caps taken at the same time by 3 different people in 3 different parts of the world fro ma test game of the LoTR plugin.

[Trevor]

here are 3 screen caps taken at the same time by 3 different people in 3 different parts of the world fro ma test game of the LoTR plugin.

What specifically is the problem? Are you checking off the preference "Rotate table image 180 degrees?"

[Jynks]

The problem is that the board looks different for each player. The location of the cards on the table are in different places. Many board games require precise positioning. Like I own 3 dungeon crawling games that have a player board that is drawn from a deck, making the dungeon as you explore it. This needs to be a set size, the cards can not change size at all. Wargames like 40K require minute measurements, no scaling. Many games use chitz on cards that move to other area, these need to be places exactly. In the images here each player has a completely different looking board. that means that the vast majority of games can noit be played in it.

[Trevor]

The problem is that the board looks different for each player. The location of the cards on the table are in different places. Many board games require precise positioning. Like I own 3 dungeon crawling games that have a player board that is drawn from a deck, making the dungeon as you explore it. This needs to be a set size, the cards can not change size at all. Wargames like 40K require minute measurements, no scaling. Many games use chitz on cards that move to other area, these need to be places exactly. In the images here each player has a completely different looking board. that means that the vast majority of games can noit be played in it.

The reason those 3 images look differently is because of appearance preferences.

You can choose to have the table mat like a real table mat, where if you are sitting on the opposite side of the table, you see it upside-down. Or you can choose to see it always up for you.
The individual player chooses. Or the plugin maker can choose to have all players sit on the same side of the table.

You can choose to have the table mat zoom in with the cards, or you can have the table mat zoom and card zoom unrelated.

With the proper preferences, I think all players would see the table the exact same way, which is what you want.

[Gordon228]

so you would rather have suron who is in mordor be in the the white city due to the stretching of the board?

[Ascent]

It occurred to me that what you need for board games is the ability to duplicate a piece when you grab it from your hand. (Which should be called the "box" or something other than "hand" in the plugin, but that's academic and preferential for the plugin designer.)

In other words, in your hand zone, it shows a single image of a particular type of piece, like the legion piece in Risk. And whenever you grab it, you get a copy of that image. This is better than having 20 pieces in your hand zone that look exactly the same. So if the game has 5 pieces, they're all right there in a row.

You could even let the plugin designer choose how many copies the piece produces while in hand and tell it to add them back to that number if put back into hand rather than keeping duplicates in hand.

You could either let the plugin designer put it in there, or make it an option in the Appearance tab: "Turn off duplicates in hand."

It's a matter of convenience, but it makes a whole lot of sense for a board game.

[Gordon228]

a better way to do it is have a peace card for say a solder and then you grab from the token area thus you have an unlimited supply

[Trevor]

It occurred to me that what you need for board games is the ability to duplicate a piece when you grab it from your hand. (Which should be called the "box" or something other than "hand" in the plugin, but that's academic and preferential for the plugin designer.)

In other words, in your hand zone, it shows a single image of a particular type of piece, like the legion piece in Risk. And whenever you grab it, you get a copy of that image. This is better than having 20 pieces in your hand zone that look exactly the same. So if the game has 5 pieces, they're all right there in a row.

You could even let the plugin designer choose how many copies the piece produces while in hand and tell it to add them back to that number if put back into hand rather than keeping duplicates in hand.

You could either let the plugin designer put it in there, or make it an option in the Appearance tab: "Turn off duplicates in hand."

It's a matter of convenience, but it makes a whole lot of sense for a board game.

Making a card a token in the token list works much like that.

[Jynks]

The problem is that the board looks different for each player. The location of the cards on the table are in different places. Many board games require precise positioning. Like I own 3 dungeon crawling games that have a player board that is drawn from a deck, making the dungeon as you explore it. This needs to be a set size, the cards can not change size at all. Wargames like 40K require minute measurements, no scaling. Many games use chitz on cards that move to other area, these need to be places exactly. In the images here each player has a completely different looking board. that means that the vast majority of games can noit be played in it.

The reason those 3 images look differently is because of appearance preferences.

You can choose to have the table mat like a real table mat, where if you are sitting on the opposite side of the table, you see it upside-down. Or you can choose to see it always up for you.
The individual player chooses. Or the plugin maker can choose to have all players sit on the same side of the table.

You can choose to have the table mat zoom in with the cards, or you can have the table mat zoom and card zoom unrelated.

With the proper preferences, I think all players would see the table the exact same way, which is what you want.

Well you would need everyone to be using the same resolution screens, everyone would have to have the screen maximised and either have the start bar hidden or in the same position and width. The resizing bars that allows you to stretch the screen about would need to be in the same position, and the image scale function at the top would need to be teh same as well anbd grid spacing would have to be teh same

For a board game or a table top war game to work you need to have exact positioning. So all the stretch and squash needs to be completely removed. I can not see any other way around this.

The player mat being upside down or not is relevant, though your right for wargaming at least you would have to have it the same way up I think....

Maybe an option in the "card" definition to disable all scale and squash and stretch functions.

[Trevor]

I think there is a misunderstanding going on. With the proper appearance preferences (where people are consistent on the playmat not rotating or not stretching), then things will appear consistent for every player.

To be specific, we are talking about placement of items on the table, both in respect to where cards/pieces are in relation to other cards/pieces, as well as where they are in relation to the playmat image. As I have things now, this is preserved, and I believe the way I am doing things now is the best way (perhaps the only way) to obtain those results.

If you have any questions, let me know and I can clear things up.

[Jynks]

... well if you can show me how I would be interested, because as far as I can see if you even so much as move the side bars changing the width of the play area the images all get squashed and the position moves.

If someone is using a different resolution in windows, things are in a different position, if they are using the same resolution but one is not maximised and one is then it looks different. If they have the image scale set to 60 and you have it set to 100 it looks different.

I mean maybe I have it wrong but I seen no way to make the screen the same for both all players.

[Trevor]

... well if you can show me how I would be interested, because as far as I can see if you even so much as move the side bars changing the width of the play area the images all get squashed and the position moves.

If someone is using a different resolution in windows, things are in a different position, if they are using the same resolution but one is not maximised and one is then it looks different. If they have the image scale set to 60 and you have it set to 100 it looks different.

I mean maybe I have it wrong but I seen no way to make the screen the same for both all players.

Things are normalized to a square. Your table is a "square" and their table is a "square", even if your square is squashed vertically, and their's is squashed horizontally. If you see a card at exactly the middle of your bottom left quadrant, (.5,-.5), then they will also see it at their corresponding location.

You follow me?

The same works with an ex you can draw on the table. If you put an ex over the playmat, they will see the  ex in the same part of their playmat. If you don't, then your apparent preference should be changed.

[Jynks]

but the chitz and the like are all visually different. Like on one screen they will be touching, in another they will be far away form each other. What setting do you need to set to make them appear exactly the same in each screen. I have tested a lot (on my desktop and my laptop) and have never once been able to get the board set-ups to look the same. I mean I am sure you are right, but I can not work it out.