Cardgame without (or limited) Resource system?

[xchokeholdx]

It is possible/viable?

We all know the ups and downs of having a resource based system. If we look at Magic for example, it (mana) is used to balance power levels (powerful cards can normally not be played in the first few turns), and Lands are used to generate Mana.

This can of course lead to the well known "mana screw / flood", which some say is a must to keep the Random factor in place.

Other systems use a fixed amount per turn (startrek tng, 2.0 for example), or a gradually growing resource (VS, WoW).

Would it be possible to minimalise resources (Epic card game did this), or totally use no resource based system whatsoever?

I am still talking about your normal Deckbuilding, 60 cards card games, where little to no other elements are involved (board, dice etc).

A very minimalistic resource based system might be: Each player gets 2 actions each turn. Playing a card cost an action, drawing a card cost an action.

Card balancing will be a bitch, but it will still be no different than not drawing your 3rd land in magic, or having 5 lands in hand after t2. you would still have to draw those "good" cards.

Anyone care to chime in?

read up more about this in this topic, where we already discussed some points:

http://www.lackeyccg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1064.15

[snowyy]

I made a game like this, where your life total was your resource, therefore you tarted with lots of resource. My idea was to include a rarity level in deck building, e.g. rares would be most powerful and expencive, an you coul only have a certain aount of rare or unncoon in your deck.

Anoter idea i had was a population amount. For exaple, eac card has a population cost, and a deck population cot can only add up to a certain number. It seems pretty good because you can have different formats with different population costs, and it gives deck builders challenges when making decks and stops people just throwing in all the biggest, best cards they can get thier hand on.

[Dragoon]

The 'action point' system is still the most viable in most simple terms.
You get 4 actions.
Actions:
- Draw a card.
- Play a card.
- Attack.

Well, this was the netrunner idea, and it works pretty well.

Another idea is the concept of sanity (form necrocomnion). Cards cost you an amount of sanity, and if you run out of sanity, bad stuff happens. (BIG Debuff on cards, etc.)

No resource system doesn't work at all. (Well, theoretically it does work, but it is HELL INCARNATE to balance.)

The deck limit idea is pretty interesting. Maybe I will make it work in my new card game. (Still in concepting, but I want to make one without a 'conflict phase'. A ccg without battles)

[Typherion]

It's pretty much impossible to make a completely resourceless card game.
Even with nothing else, the cards themselves and how they are used are a kind of resource.

I imagine a truly resourceless card game would be very boring because you would have access to all cards at all times, with the ability to play them all infinitely without restriction. It would be like throwing your whole deck at your opponent while screaming "I WIN!".

I think what you might actually want is an elegant resource system that blends into the game so well that you don't really notice it. Maybe it's not a matter of limiting the resource system, but just making it so smooth that it's part of the fun.

[Malagar]

I also tried a few times to create a resourceless-resource-system. I have nothing new to report about this aproach, as others explained possibilities quite well:

1. i dont like the epic CCG aproach, it completely takes out the purpose of resources and players just keep drawing cards and slam them onto the table.

2. pesudo resources like milling cards from your deck or paying life or discarding cards are interesting - but magic already did use all of theese mechanics

3. fixed systems like star trek 2.0 come into mind. also a system where every player gains exactly X resources every turn.

4. duelmasters, where you can play every card face down as a resource

5. once, i had an idea in mind where resources are centered about key-cards. example: you need a smithy and a wood chuck to play this card - but this is similar to magic, where islands produce blue mana and plains white mana. also it increases mulligan even more, as you can wait endlessly to draw the right cards.

yeah well, i kept repeating what others already said - but i think the discussion is interesting. cant come up with anything new right now and just wanted to contribute my thoughts. even my current game (wich is quite far in progress) could need a really innovative resource system, currently it seems a bit overused.

[xchokeholdx]

Maybe a system where your cards provide resources to your opponent (a la Lotr cct) could be refined?

then there is also the Warstorm idea: each card has a countdown number, and you can not play that card unless that amount of turns has passed.

Maybe a simple Resources=amount of cards in your hand could work? That way, you have a diminishing amount or resources as the game goes on, but you can still control a bit how many resources you save up each turn?

so lets say I have 4 cards in hand. I can pay for a card that costs 4 resources. If I have a card in hand that costs 5 or more, I can not play it, unless I find a way to draw more cards (usually done by normal game mechanics)...hmmm.. this could work..

Players could play a very high costed card early on, but it would still limit them on later turns. Maybe a mechanism would let you return cards from game back into your hand to get more resources, at the cost of card(s) in play?...hmmm..

[Typherion]

The only problem I can see is that games generally do not want diminishing resources over time, because it can slow the game down instead of driving it to its conclusion.

If you implement the hand = resources idea you probably need a way to increase the number of cards in your hand.

It could also encourage strange behaviour if done poorly, like players only building decks with 5 cost cards and only playing one card per turn so that no resources are wasted for example.

[DavidChaos]

Every game is going to have a resource system of some sort; a price to be paid for using more powerful cards.  Whether that resource is a tangible component or not is what you need to decide.

In the original design of Hexdrake, there were no elements (thus making the resource system I have in place now pointless, and changing into a "+1 each turn" intangible.)

Even YGO has resource mechanics.  The Normal Summon and Tribute Summon mechanics are good examples of this; only one card gets played for free per turn, and more powerful cards require sending others to the grave anyway.  Special Summons normally require conditions to be met.  In addition, the field itself is a resource, due to the limited space.

In other words, resource systems aren't something you can try to take out of a card game, but can try to diminish the appearance of if your game calls for it.  My game uses a familiar resource system done in a new way; the way my mana works, you are less likely to be mana screwed, although you can still not pull the element you need (or only have a Source that has a secondary cost to make that element).  But with the way that the game works, it's actually much more viable to try 3-element decks, and possibly 4.  "splashing" mutliple other colors is possible as well.

[Dragoon]

To go back on the cards in hand system. You could say that a card has cost 4, and has a value of 3. That means to play a card with cost 4 I need to discard cards with total value 4 or more.

Hmm, this could work..

[Cyrus]

Card can be discarded from hand for their resource value, or played from hand for their cost... and maybe fill up hands at the end of each turn? Lots of deck-building and design space there...

[Dragoon]

Balancing would be annoying, but I think this is a good idea.

[Ascent]

This is the most unique card type design I've ever seen and it has proven quite fun and is quickly becoming a staple in deck design. It has innumerable applications. It could be useful as the only resource mechanic in a game, whether as a playable card or as a game's core mechanic:

SWTCG Resource card

You can use it to trickle draws, build and other types of resources.

Just remember, you saw it with the Star Wars TCG Independent Development Committee first. Garritt Pruim was the card type's creator.

[xchokeholdx]

This is the most unique card type design I've ever seen and it has proven quite fun and is quickly becoming a staple in deck design. It has innumerable applications. It could be useful as the only resource mechanic in a game, whether as a playable card or as a game's core mechanic:

SWTCG Resource card

You can use it to trickle draws, build and other types of resources.

Just remember, you saw it with the Star Wars TCG Independent Development Committee first. Garritt Pruim was the card type's creator.

I read it and it is indeed awesome. You can use it as a standard card for all players to use, or spice it up by faction/type of deck. Must brainstorm now!!...

[Dragoon]

Interesting idea.. Might be worth looking at..

[Dragoon]

Continuing forward from the SWTCG resource card and some of my old idea's.

The Resource Card.
- A resource card provides some resource icons each turn.
- You can add tokens to add more icons or do some ability.
- You can remove tokens for a specific ability.

- To play a card you need to have that amount of resource icons in play.
- Some cards add resource icons.

Hmm.. More brainstorming thus.