How to Desgin...

[Binx]

My friends and I, after many years of playing CCG's, have decided we wish to develop our own. Taking examples from games like VTES, AGOT, COC, L5R and of course Magic we hope to come up with some pretty cool game mechanics. However, it is the design component that seems to stifle our creative drive. After experimenting with programs like Word Art, Excel, & Quick Draw to no avail we are at a lose. I see such beautifully designed cards on this forum and im in awe as to how they were created.

In short, could someone please enlighten me as to the method and procedure behind card development? Specifically the program or programs used to create them? And if at all possible give me a quick tutorial highlighting the process?

Thank you!!!
Binx

[Dragoon]

If it's purely about card development, you have several options.

The first and most basic one is to create cards using photoshop or gimp. You could create a template and then build cards using that template.
Another option is the use of MSE (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/) which requires programming knowledge.

Generally, the first thing to do is to make a mock up template so you can create some cards to playtest. (See magic playtest cards) After those, you can build the templates as a whole.

[Binx]

Thank you so much for your recommendation, i truly appreciate it!

Also i've checked out your game, and it looks great! Keep up the good work.

I like the MSE program but it doesnt seem to give alot of freedom. So far our card game is pretty complex (one of the things we're working to correct). However our game doesn't really fit in the common magic template or any derivation there of. Are there any programs out there that give alittle bit more creative freedom? Or possibly even a Generic CCG development program? Or is that just a pipe dream, with the only option being custom creation?

[Cyrus]

Sadly, that is pipe dream status. I've looked for many moons lol.

I'd say you'd be best off acquiring photoshop (PM about this if you need help and are, uh, "down," as the kids say. If you do end up going further with your game, you'll need a legit copy). I can send you some old templates of mine or walk you through what I do, although you might be better off asking Dragoon, as I think his designs look more professional than mine.

I mostly build my templates in photoshop using the tools provided, such as the shape tool and layer effects. It is clear that Dragoon pieces together components found elsewhere, and that's why his work looks better (also watermarks and better icon work). I'm just bad at finding stuff to put together lol.

Before you start getting serious about making one for your game, make sure to playtest a ton. It will save you 10,000,000 hours if you cut the template revision process down as far as possible. Good luck, its a big bad world of design out there.

[Binx]

Thank you, Cyrus! Great input! I figured as much (itd be to good to be true).

[Picks-at-Flies]

MSE is as flexible as 99% of games need to be if you are prepared to take the time to make your own template.  However, that effort will be wasted if you end up constantly changing your layout and card elements so until you have a good idea what the final content will be it's better to stick to something simpler.  While Gimp/Photoshop are fine for designing the look, I would actually prefer Publisher for initial playtesting since you can just have pages of cards rather than lots of separate files.

(Of course, these days I can hack out simple MSE templates in a few hours so I would probably do that.  If only I actually had energy to sell my games...)

[xchokeholdx]

MSE is as flexible as 99% of games need to be if you are prepared to take the time to make your own template.  However, that effort will be wasted if you end up constantly changing your layout and card elements so until you have a good idea what the final content will be it's better to stick to something simpler.  While Gimp/Photoshop are fine for designing the look, I would actually prefer Publisher for initial playtesting since you can just have pages of cards rather than lots of separate files.

(Of course, these days I can hack out simple MSE templates in a few hours so I would probably do that.  If only I actually had energy to sell my games...)

Indeed. Please make sure you have your ruleset in order before starting on a card template.

It is most frustrating to have to re-do hundreds of cards just because a rule change forces you to modify the card template(s).

Do A LOT of mockups (just sharpy on white paper) to see where you want your art, where to place symbols etc. Pay attention to rules in your game that makes card harder to use (flipped cards, tapped cards, turned 90? sideways etc.. Make card templates for different card types alike, but different enough so that players can easily distinguish them (different colors help a lot).

Have a look at my Clone wars card templates (link in sig). They took me about 2 weeks in total to make (the template alone, not all the cards that was another 2 months).

Even though it is the best part about card design, designing the actual templates and cards should NOT be the first on your list. I prefer the following rules when designing a new card game:
1) basic rules
2) refine rules x 1000
3) some mockup card to see how the rules play out. READ: how the RULES play out, not the cards!
4) refine rules x 100
5) create some vanilla cards (cards without a lot of gametext)
6) refine rules x 10
7) start on some spreadsheets to see where each Color/faction/clan/ sits in the rules of the game, add some rough numbers to about 100 cards.
Use those cards to test the rules, AND to test those cards
9) refine rules x5, refine cards x 1000
10) add in all the numbers, gametext you want to use on your cards. Print them B/W plain text only.
11) refine rules, refine cards x 100.
12) start on a template for all card types, start on a rulebook
13) refine rules, refine cards x 10.
14) playtest all the cards you have. make a note NOT to add anything to the rules, unless something game.breaking comes up.
15) repeat point 14) until completely satisfied.
16) print out all the cards with full template in full color, print out rulebook
17) Blind playtest the game if possible.
18) start looking out for a publisher maybe?

I am sure I missed some points here and there, but I hope you get the overall idea, don?t be TOO focussed on card creation in the beginning, as the rules are far more important in that stage.

[Binx]

Thank you, both chokehold and Picks. I very much appreciate the pointers!!! I am still quite green to this whole process of game creation so all insights are very much welcome. Thus far game design is going swimmingly and it seems like the prevailing notion is to "measure twice, cut once", which i totally understand and agree with. Why spends hours developing a card design if by necessity it will change due to mechanics, right? Right!

Like i've stated we are no where close to the production phase nor are our card designs written in stone I would simply like to get some experience with process in before we do get there.

However, I feel i still need some guidance in terms of template construction, such as where to begin? Im in the process of DL'ing CS5 (adobe) and i already have MSE and GIMP. In order to create a template, is it required to have knowledge on programing or is the process more simplistic? Also, are there any tricks of the trade i should be aware of OR is the process more "flying by the seat of ones pants" than anything else?

I guess what im asking for is if someone could give me a run down of the process they've used or continue to use. It seems like everyone on this forum has their own game and the ones ive seen look GREAT!

[innuendo]

Programming is the wrong word for MSE, it's much simpler than that.  I would say you need to be able to script.  And even that is generous.  It's not hard, it's just a new language, one that is very custom tailored to MSE.  The easiest way to learn is to take one of the simpler templates (see: NOT mtg) and simply crack open the game files and look around.  If you have a background in programming it helps, but really it's just all cut/hack/and paste from there to get what you want.\

They have some decent documentation on their site as well, if you need specifics about the scripting language used.

[Binx]

Thanks Innuendo! I agree, i feel i've complicated the issue by interjecting the notion that programing knowledge is required for template construction :/

I'm still at a lose of where to being... I see that many ppl on the MSE template development forum have created their own for independent purposes. Though i feel I'm a step behind because, i still dont know where to begin.

Could you (or anyone for that matter) be more specific, keeping in mind I'm a total nOOb at this process? Specially the process behind template construction, Ie. how to for instance how to open and manipulate an existing templates file?

Thanks again 

[innuendo]

This thread is woefully out of date at this point, but start here

http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/1677

[Trevor]

Professionals use photoshop in most cases. All of the major CCG makers do that I am aware of.

[snowyy]

I made mine using word. Just using the shapes tool, then having the rectangle shapes colour use a picture.

[Binx]

Thank you all for the insights!

[innuendo]

Professionals use photoshop in most cases. All of the major CCG makers do that I am aware of.

I'm pretty confident that for quick prototyping WotC uses MSE (this is talked about ad nauseum on those forums).

But for their production stuff, I've heard they use customer software.