I just posted a new version of Lackey, build date 05-16-11. Post bugs here.

[Trevor]

I fixed a number of the bugs reported and added some new things. There are now interface elements at the top of the table for adjusting the scale of items on the table. Scaling is different than zooming. Zooming zooms you in, but scaling actually makes the cards bigger (or smaller).

The main new thing is the new functionality of spectators. The color coding of games listed in the game list is:
gray=the game uses a different plugin, so you can't join it
green=the game is the same plugin, and there is an open seat, so you can join it.
black=the game is the same plugin as yours, but there is no open seat and spectators aren't allowed, so you can't join it
blue=the game is the same plugin as yours, but there are no open seats, but spectators ARE allowed, you can join it.

That last one is new.

Up to 10 people total can now be connected to your game, including players and spectators. Spectators are shown all together in one line below the player's stats area. Spectators can't affect the game in any way and the only thing they can do is watch and chat.
Test that out please. If you are a spectator, and you are able to affect anything in a game, let me know and I will fix that.

It is very easy to add an additional seat for a spectator, and a spectator can then become a player and be able to load a deck and otherwise affect the game. Only the host can add and remove seats, but if there is a free seat, and spectator can sit in it.
Similarly, it is easy for a player to become just a spectator. In the main menu, select "Get up from seat and spectate". Once a spectator, anyone is free to take your seat.

Please report all bugs with this version in this thread.

[dialectric]

To answer your question Trevor, as a spectator in the new version, a person can disrupt the game by

1. changing life totals
2. using the clear button to clear notes and untap cards
3. clicking 'erase' button to erase marks drawn by others
4. rolling dice (minor issue)
5. shuffling players' library, hand, etc.
6. hiding and revealing hands, libraries, etc.
7. setting cards to 'doesn't untap' using card menu
-----------

I tested each of these. There could be a few more issues. the spectator feature is definitely a good addition.

[magekirbys]

Well other than the things already mentioned it seems like spectators are also able to :
1) Clear tables.
2) Start new games.
3) Mark tables using the middle mouse button.
4) Spawn tokens. (At least in the yugioh plugin by pressing F8)
5) Flip coins. (At least in the yugioh plugin by pressing F4)

[institute]

When you are in "open packs" mode in the deck editor and drag a card from the bottom window to the deck window you do not see the translucent mini-card indicator as you drag that is apparent when you drag a card from the regular card display window to your deck. This was also the case with the version just before this one.

[Nava]

It is perhaps here since the 05-14 version but nevertheless: if you stack cards on the table they will be "elevated" (the farther from table center the more) and won't completely cover each other. Is there any chance to switch this behavior off for certain games (i.e. STCCG 1e) as it clutters the desk if you have 12 stacks or more on the table 

Nava

[Trevor]

It is perhaps here since the 05-14 version but nevertheless: if you stack cards on the table they will be "elevated" (the farther from table center the more) and won't completely cover each other. Is there any chance to switch this behavior off for certain games (i.e. STCCG 1e) as it clutters the desk if you have 12 stacks or more on the table 

Nava

You can turn on the preference to not allow cards exactly on top of eachother. If you have so many cards, you should thinking about making a zone for that sort of thing.

[Shogun1118]

My friend just downloaded the latest update build and his norton antivirus said there was a virus in the windows update. Can u check and make sure? thanks, Shogun.

[Trevor]

My friend just downloaded the latest update build and his norton antivirus said there was a virus in the windows update. Can u check and make sure? thanks, Shogun.

I highly doubt it. The program does some network activity, and norton might think its a trojan (as is the case with any program that uses networking). But it doesn't make sense that it would think it has a virus. The updater installs a different program, and maybe it thinks that is suspicious.

[Saethori]

[...] norton antivirus [...]

Well, there's your problem right there. >_>

[Melkor1010]

I'm currently a spectator in a game.  When I play, I'm always on the bottom and I tilt the screen to see how many cards are in the top players hand (same goes for when I spectate).  When the top player took a mulligan, It didn't show him putting his cards away, even though the log said that he did.  So when he drew 6, I saw them on top of his previous 7...I had to watch his hand in the bottom zone or the right zone to keep track.  It was confusing.

I also noticed that if I tried to spectate a game before there were 2 players in the game, it automatically put me in the 2nd seat, even if I clicked spectate instead of join. 

If a player leaves while I'm spectating and the host hits new game, it puts me in the seat and I need to leave so that someone else can join.  Then I can re-enter.

This time I joined a game after it started.  I don't see any cards in the top players hand, even with the screen tilted.  All of the zones were empty until I started clicking them, then they updated.  Also, when I type in the chat, my name does not appear...just what I am typing (didn't notice if that happened last time or not)

OK...so now I tried to exit a game while I was spectating (while they were doing their sideboarding).  I exited the game, but their chat log was still appearing in the game screen.  I could type with them, but I could not see anything.  Their game seemed to be bugging out because of this but I can't be sure what problems they had.  I just closed lackey and am going to try to join again. 

That's all I got for now.  Also, Treznor and I thank you very much for adding this feature.  I remember we mentioned it to you a couple months ago in the lackey chat.  We are grateful!

[Nava]

It is perhaps here since the 05-14 version but nevertheless: if you stack cards on the table they will be "elevated" (the farther from table center the more) and won't completely cover each other. Is there any chance to switch this behavior off for certain games (i.e. STCCG 1e) as it clutters the desk if you have 12 stacks or more on the table 

Nava

You can turn on the preference to not allow cards exactly on top of eachother. If you have so many cards, you should thinking about making a zone for that sort of thing.

Not that easily possible - it is an integral part of the game: you seed (play) cards on the table to represent your goals for the game. Your opponent may then stack dilemmas under your missions (to represent hazards). Knowing how many dilemmas are under one mission does give you an edge. Furthermore are at the start of a game 12 mission stacks on the table (which are also arranged in a special spatial way which has importance). It would be really great to have the "old time" stacks back (at least as an option).

Nava

P.S: Thanks for all the great work!

[Trevor]

It is perhaps here since the 05-14 version but nevertheless: if you stack cards on the table they will be "elevated" (the farther from table center the more) and won't completely cover each other. Is there any chance to switch this behavior off for certain games (i.e. STCCG 1e) as it clutters the desk if you have 12 stacks or more on the table 

Nava

You can turn on the preference to not allow cards exactly on top of eachother. If you have so many cards, you should thinking about making a zone for that sort of thing.

Not that easily possible - it is an integral part of the game: you seed (play) cards on the table to represent your goals for the game. Your opponent may then stack dilemmas under your missions (to represent hazards). Knowing how many dilemmas are under one mission does give you an edge. Furthermore are at the start of a game 12 mission stacks on the table (which are also arranged in a special spatial way which has importance). It would be really great to have the "old time" stacks back (at least as an option).

Nava

P.S: Thanks for all the great work!

I can make an option to not have cards be drawn higher, but I think the little line I have showing there is at least one card underneath is a good idea. Otherwise, people could lose cards. That work for you?

By the way, cards on the table have no order associated with them. If you put a stack of cards all on top of each other, these do NOT function like deck of cards, or at least they aren't guaranteed to. I made a way to handle a proper deck/pile of cards, and I call it a "zone" and I made GUI elements to support it. If a proper zone isn't working for your purpose, then I would suggest we fix that rather than trying to fake it by "stacking" cards on the table. At present,  the number of cards in a zone is labeled because I thought this would be evident with real piles, at least approximately, just by looking across the table and guessing how big a pile is. If you want a method of hiding the count, I might add that, but its a very clumsy mechanic and it really seems like an inelegant method of doing things.

Can you show me a diagram of how the 12 mission stacks works? It seems rather weird.

[Nava]

I can make an option to not have cards be drawn higher, but I think the little line I have showing there is at least one card underneath is a good idea. Otherwise, people could lose cards. That work for you?

By the way, cards on the table have no order associated with them. If you put a stack of cards all on top of each other, these do NOT function like deck of cards, or at least they aren't guaranteed to. I made a way to handle a proper deck/pile of cards, and I call it a "zone" and I made GUI elements to support it. If a proper zone isn't working for your purpose, then I would suggest we fix that rather than trying to fake it by "stacking" cards on the table. At present,  the number of cards in a zone is labeled because I thought this would be evident with real piles, at least approximately, just by looking across the table and guessing how big a pile is. If you want a method of hiding the count, I might add that, but its a very clumsy mechanic and it really seems like an inelegant method of doing things.

Can you show me a diagram of how the 12 mission stacks works? It seems rather weird.

Yes I do know about zones and we use them quite heavily... but as you asked for it, here is STCCG in it's gory glory:



Label number 1 denotes the so called "space line" a representation of locations/missions where the order of the locations is of importance. Beneath every of the missions in the space line are so called dilemmas (seeded by your opponent) to be encountered by teams at the missions. If you manage to overcome all dilemmas under a mission you may score points. You fly between missions, that is why the order of the missions is important. The order of the dilemmas under one missions is determined at the start/seeding. The problem now is:

• There is no fixed number of seeds under a mission, so knowing where only 2 or three dilemmas are to be encountered would give you an advantage.
• The table is cluttered enough as it is, seeds with an offset would increase the clutter and stretch the space line even more.

BTW 3 denotes the support cards and 2 the personnel played to the table (they were moved just after this to a zone for a better handling). This does not work like usual games, imagine a LOTR game with cards stacked under every site (if you have played LOTR)

The order of cards is determined at the start of the game and is only relevant for each stack under a mission. All other cards (decks and the 6 possible side decks) are handled through zones already.

Nava

[Trevor]

I can make an option to not have cards be drawn higher, but I think the little line I have showing there is at least one card underneath is a good idea. Otherwise, people could lose cards. That work for you?

By the way, cards on the table have no order associated with them. If you put a stack of cards all on top of each other, these do NOT function like deck of cards, or at least they aren't guaranteed to. I made a way to handle a proper deck/pile of cards, and I call it a "zone" and I made GUI elements to support it. If a proper zone isn't working for your purpose, then I would suggest we fix that rather than trying to fake it by "stacking" cards on the table. At present,  the number of cards in a zone is labeled because I thought this would be evident with real piles, at least approximately, just by looking across the table and guessing how big a pile is. If you want a method of hiding the count, I might add that, but its a very clumsy mechanic and it really seems like an inelegant method of doing things.

Can you show me a diagram of how the 12 mission stacks works? It seems rather weird.

Yes I do know about zones and we use them quite heavily... but as you asked for it, here is STCCG in it's gory glory:



Label number 1 denotes the so called "space line" a representation of locations/missions where the order of the locations is of importance. Beneath every of the missions in the space line are so called dilemmas (seeded by your opponent) to be encountered by teams at the missions. If you manage to overcome all dilemmas under a mission you may score points. You fly between missions, that is why the order of the missions is important. The order of the dilemmas under one missions is determined at the start/seeding. The problem now is:

• There is no fixed number of seeds under a mission, so knowing where only 2 or three dilemmas are to be encountered would give you an advantage.
• The table is cluttered enough as it is, seeds with an offset would increase the clutter and stretch the space line even more.

BTW 3 denotes the support cards and 2 the personnel played to the table (they were moved just after this to a zone for a better handling). This does not work like usual games, imagine a LOTR game with cards stacked under every site (if you have played LOTR)

The order of cards is determined at the start of the game and is only relevant for each stack under a mission. All other cards (decks and the 6 possible side decks) are handled through zones already.

Nava

So you want to be able to put dilemma cards directly under mission cards and have it be unclear how many cards are in the pile? With real cards, couldn't you see the pile and gauge (albeit approximately) how many were in the pile? Also, it seems like you could SEE the opponent adding cards under it, or do you need to close your eyes or something? In any case, I don't see how you can remain ignorant of how many cards are there. Therefore, I don't see it as a problem that Lackey now will draw some cards higher (like they would be with real cards). If that logic is not sound, let me know.

You mentioned running out of table space. Remember that you can both Zoom out, and reduce the scale of the cards on the table.

This game is unusual in that it has so many potential extra zones. I think you might consider doing this: Instead of having tons of zones (most of which go unused most of the time), maybe you could instead have Pile 1, Pile 2, Pile 3, Pile 4, and Pile 5. That should be enough to accommodate the number you actually need. So you'd just use the zones as needed rather than keeping placeholder zones that never get used.

[Nava]

So you want to be able to put dilemma cards directly under mission cards and have it be unclear how many cards are in the pile? With real cards, couldn't you see the pile and gauge (albeit approximately) how many were in the pile? Also, it seems like you could SEE the opponent adding cards under it, or do you need to close your eyes or something? In any case, I don't see how you can remain ignorant of how many cards are there. Therefore, I don't see it as a problem that Lackey now will draw some cards higher (like they would be with real cards). If that logic is not sound, let me know.

We do bulk seed ... so you can only guess how many are under your mission. It is not something I do to annoy you, but this topic came up in games and on forums ... This plugin has some maturity, it has evolved over the last years and players are used to how it is working as well as we have made changes to tailor it to our needs.

This game is unusual in that it has so many potential extra zones. I think you might consider doing this: Instead of having tons of zones (most of which go unused most of the time), maybe you could instead have Pile 1, Pile 2, Pile 3, Pile 4, and Pile 5. That should be enough to accommodate the number you actually need. So you'd just use the zones as needed rather than keeping placeholder zones that never get used.

Those zones are not only potential zones; many decks use 2-4 of those zones in varying compositions. And some zones are handled different: initial visible to both, to one, to none. So these zones are tailored to the needs of every different side deck. Again: believe me that this has a reason - even if it is a great idea to question things to get rid of legacy, we are constantly discussing these things in the development group.

Nava