A game idea I have been tinkering with for a while now, need advice.

Started by the Voluminous Poo, April 30, 2012, 11:38:07 AM

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the Voluminous Poo

Hello everyone. I am not necessarily new here, as I have been lurking for quite some time, but this is one of the few times I have posted, may even be the first.

Ok, so over the course of a year I have been switching a few ideas around in my head for a couple of card games. I would like to elaborate on the most prevalent one in hopes that the community could help me figure out what to do. I have been on these forums for a while, but haven?t made a thread until now. Please feel free to let me know which interests you and any critiques you may have.

First Idea: This idea was inspired by Monster raising games (Pok?mon, Digimon, etc.). The player has a deck of cards (probably 60) comprised of 3 types of cards: Creature (I am leaning toward calling them Djinn, though I am still looking for another description), Techniques (which are the attacks each card can perform, though Creatures can make Basic attacks that do not require a card to be played), and Enhancement (which represents equipment, heal items and such). I have been debating adding a fourth card, Tactic (which can be likened to Event cards in other games, they alter play in distinct ways), but if it is non-essential, it will not be included.
I wanted the game to play out like an RPG,  players act simultaneously using turns to decide who acts first (think DBZ TCG) when it comes to playing Enhancements and Tactics, but creatures compare Courage [Cur] on each combat to determine which one acts first (A tie being beaten by the Active player), and can only use Techniques and Abilities (and certain Enhancements and such) on their turn.
Resource Generation is akin to that of Duel Masters with the resource known as Essence, each card has an Element type, and on the bottom of the card is a circle (insinuating that the card is played upside down to show it is Essence and not another in play card). Every card has an Essence Cost, which can be zero, and essence is gained by either discarding a card from your hand OR moving the top card of your deck to the Essence area once each turn.

Card Descriptions:

Creatures
--Have 3 Stats: Courage [Cur] (determines which creature acts first in a turn), Accuracy [Acc] (determines if an attack hits), and Evasion [Eva] (Determines how hard the creature is to hit).
--Set of Traits, which have not been determined as of yet, but decide what kinds of Enhancements and Techniques it can use.
--HP, which determines how much damage it can sustain before it is considered Fallen.
--A text box, which will include an ability and a Signature Technique, which is unique to each creature.
--Each creature has a Family and Class listing (for example <Dragon Brute>) which helps determine how it transforms throughout the game. Unlike Pok?mon the creature can level up to any card that matches it's Family and/or Class and Element.

Techniques
--Can be Offense, Defense, or Utility. Offense for damage, Defense grant increases to Evasion or Damage Reduction and certain ones can be used as Interrupts allowing the creature to act out of turn (though this counts as it using its turn), and Utility grants other benefits and modifications to a creature.
--Dealing damage is mostly only Offensive Techniques, but Defensive and Utility Techniques can cause secondary damage or Status Afflictions.
--Have Trait, Family, and/or Class restrictions that limit which Creatures can use them.

Enhancements
--Can modify Stats and/or grant Traits, or grant Abilities.
--Are played like Level cards, except under the Creature card instead of over, with the Stat and Trait section showing, or the Ability section showing.
--Can be single use, limited uses, or continuous uses.
--Have Trait, Family, and/or Class restrictions that limit which Creatures can use them.
--Are considered Active (always in use), Consumable (used once on the creatures turn, then discarded), and Limited use.

Tactic
--still debating adding this card.
--Can modify Stats and grant circumstantial effects.
--Only one played a turn.
--Can affect one creature, the entire team, or the entire field.

This is the most thought out of my ideas, and I even have a couple of the cards fleshed out (but not detailed). The main issue I am coming into is how many creatures are allowed to be in play. I don?t want it to be like magic, where you can have as many in play as you like, but I don?t want a set limit like Yu-Gi-Oh. This would mean I need to make another point system that limits the number of Creatures in play, but leveling up makes for more complications.
The next problem is victory conditions, the first is obviously running out of cards, but I am at a loss as to if I should incorporate a limit of dead creatures, first to 5 or some such (a-la Pok?mon), a Health system which is reduced via creature deaths or direct attacks against a player (a-la Magic), or some other method.
I also still have to play test these cards, which is limiting since I know no other card players in my area.
One last problem I face is variability in attacks. Since you need to have your [ACC] beat the opponents [EVA] I have thought of using die rolls to add this. Or if I should just leave it as Techniques add to [ACC] when determining a hit. I never liked the idea of discarding cards to get a ?destiny Draw? to quote the Star Wars CCG.

Any and all help is welcome, and please be polite and constructive, this is a serious endeavor of mine.

MLaRF

Looking pretty solid, though I have to question how much luck will take effect with the accuracy vs. evasion thing. It might also be cool to give the creatures their own offensive and defensive stats to make certain ones better at certain roles, but I'm sure you could just include those kind of things as effects if you wanted. Tactic could probably be put in as a subset of Enhancement cards if you don't want to get rid of the tactic cards you have planned. What's the turn structure like? Will there be any kind of liability for having no creatures (other than for the life points style of win condition)?

the Voluminous Poo

Quote from: MLaRF on April 30, 2012, 03:20:54 PM
Looking pretty solid, though I have to question how much luck will take effect with the accuracy vs. evasion thing. It might also be cool to give the creatures their own offensive and defensive stats to make certain ones better at certain roles, but I'm sure you could just include those kind of things as effects if you wanted. Tactic could probably be put in as a subset of Enhancement cards if you don't want to get rid of the tactic cards you have planned. What's the turn structure like? Will there be any kind of liability for having no creatures (other than for the life points style of win condition)?
I like the idea of a Tactic card, but it seems unfeasible at the moment to include it. I mainly wanted to and it as additional variables for Accuracy and Evasion.
The win condition is one of the things I am struggling with, on the one hand I don't want it to be dependent on player health like magic. I am thinking the best way is to Poke'mon it and have a set number of creatures that can be knocked off before defeat.
Also, Essence is tapped, like in magic (called Depleted for this game when tapped, replenished when set right side up)
As for turn structure, going with the usual play, toss a coin or rock-paper-scissors to see who goes first. Both players draw a hand of six cards.

Set-up Phase
--Both players redraw up to 6 cards.
--Active player can discard for Essence.
--Active player can bring a creature into play (I might make this both players, with Active player starting off).
--Active player can level up any creature once (I might make this both players, with Active player starting off).
--Both players can play enhancements with the Active player leading the play.
--(if Tactic cards are used) Both players play a Tactic Card, Active player leading the Play.

Combat Phase
--Creature with the highest Courage goes first, if there is a Tie, the Active player's creature acts first. If there is a tie between the Active player's creatures, he decides who goes first.
--Acting creature chooses a target to attack, the creature can pass.
--The creature can activate Activated Abilities, these do not count as using a turn unless otherwise stated. (abilities can be Continuous, Activated, or Triggered)
--Acting creature is able to use a Technique.If a technique card cannot be payed for or the player chooses not to play one the acting creature can use a Basic attack (Die roll or some such + Accuracy) which has no cost.
--Acting creature adds all relevant modifiers to his Accuracy and compares it to the targets Evasion, plus relevant modifiers.
--If Accuracy is lower than Evasion, no damage is dealt. If it is higher, damage equal to the technique card's damage is dealt then adds any effects, if any. For basic attacks this is equal to one if the target is the same level or higher but gains +1 for every level the acting creature is above the target (max 3).
--When a creature's HP reaches 0 or less it's highest form is turned face down, also known as Fallen position. Card in Fallen position are still considered In Play and can be targeted by Techniques and such, but gain no damage or status ailments.

Clear Phase
--Card that expire at the end of the turn are discarded.
--Fallen creatures are discarded, as well as attached cards. (I am thinking of a Drop mechanic where equipment remains in play to be snagged by creatures, but not sure I want to implement it. Don't want to complicate things further).
--effects that take place at the end of turn initiate.

This is the round about way that I want the turn sequence to go, I hope I made it clear. My ideas tend not to translate well into writing, lol.

<EDIT>
Didn't want to double post, but here is how I plan the Creature Card to appear. I haven't added any detail, just outlines so far.

Typherion

That template looks awesome, I wish I could make stuff like that!

Is the hourglass symbol used for your Courage stat? I might suggest renaming the stat to Speed or Initiative in that case.

I think this game would work really well as an online ccg because you could just let the computer do the rng for accuracy and evasion.

the Voluminous Poo

This template (which is my favorite) was before the revisions I made, I just never got around to making different symbols.
When I first made it it was Initiative, Power, and Defense. Damage was dealt via exceeding the Defense Stat, the difference was damage. I would have used this but I wanted to allow attacks to be made without using a Technique card.


the Voluminous Poo

Ok, haven't gotten a reply in a while, so here is an incomplete example card.
t is a Tactic Card:

Typherion

I'll try to give some more feedback on the areas that you specifically asked for help with.

Number of creatures in play
I really prefer a set limit of 5 like in Yu-Gi-Oh rather than having an infinite board like in Magic. You mentioned making a point system to control the number of creatures but as you said that could be complicated. It all depends on what your vision for the scale of the game is. May I ask why you don't like a set limit? Because it seems like the easiest solution to me.

Victory conditions
If the focus of the game is on powering up your creatures then I think a victory condition of defeating X creatures would be fine. Perhaps defeating a creature could award 1 Victory Point and players who don't control any creatures lose or give their opponent 1 Victory Point each turn?

Names
I don't really like the name djinn because it makes me think of genies and wishes. It's difficult to suggest anything without knowing the flavour of the game.

the Voluminous Poo

#8
Quote from: Typherion on May 07, 2012, 08:31:35 PM
I'll try to give some more feedback on the areas that you specifically asked for help with.

Number of creatures in play
I really prefer a set limit of 5 like in Yu-Gi-Oh rather than having an infinite board like in Magic. You mentioned making a point system to control the number of creatures but as you said that could be complicated. It all depends on what your vision for the scale of the game is. May I ask why you don't like a set limit? Because it seems like the easiest solution to me.

Victory conditions
If the focus of the game is on powering up your creatures then I think a victory condition of defeating X creatures would be fine. Perhaps defeating a creature could award 1 Victory Point and players who don't control any creatures lose or give their opponent 1 Victory Point each turn?

Names
I don't really like the name djinn because it makes me think of genies and wishes. It's difficult to suggest anything without knowing the flavour of the game.
I wanted to add variability, kind of like a Random Encounter mechanic, but it seems unusable in this instance. I may use it for the next card game I create. For this one I think I'll do a set number, I am thinking three in play at a time, maybe four, but three would be easier to keep track of. Victory conditions I may make Morale, a killed creature deducts morale, every turn there is no creature in play it is an auto deduction of 1 Morale.

Now, you are right about Djinn, they are the basis of Genie, but the original concept of Djinn came from islamic tradition. There are three spaces or dimensions, one inhabited by us, one inhabited by angels, and one inhabited by Djinn. Djinn could be summon by humans to our realm to do our bidding, so I figured the name fit. Granted, I am not a fan of it either, but I cannot think of another name for them.

My idea behind the game is like a monster trainer game but more closely tied to actual mythology. So a card could have a name like Tiamat and it's Family and Class would be <Leviathan/Brute>. Families tie creatures to a common aspect to allow them to level and change, so Tiamat could level up into any other card of the Leviathan family (if Tiamat was level one, but she'd probably be level 3 in my opinion), Brute Class, and matches it's Element. Cards have elements that grant bonuses to damage against advantaged creatures. Fire>Earth, Earth>Air, Air>Water, Water>Fire.

I'll post a creature card idea to help with the concept, but this is the gist of my idea.

MLaRF

Oh yeah, responding. I should do that.
I really like that morale idea you've got going on. It seems like a great way to find a middle ground between life points style and last-man-standing style.
If you're thinking of other possible names for basis in real mythology, legend or even myth cards could work, though they don't quite convey the same image as a creature-based word like djinn.
In terms of the card setup, I'd say making the text under the title and the effect text larger, because they're kind of hard to read.

the Voluminous Poo

Ok, I'll make sure the type is larger in the newer versions. And yeah, I am going more for a general term for a creature, like Conjuration. Which I have thought of using but it is a bit of an extended name.

MLaRF

You could really use "conjure" if you want to use a shorter word, I looked it up and it can be used as a noun, so yeah. That sounds like a cool one no one's really used yet.

the Voluminous Poo

It seems like the only word that'll fit, lol. I didn't want it to be a reference to magic and conjuring up creatures. but without making up a word, that might be the only way to go. :/

Also, I haven't said it yet, but thank you all for your input. It has helped me greatly.

Typherion

Just some more random ideas for names: Esper, Eidolon, Aeon, Sprite,

the Voluminous Poo

Quote from: Typherion on May 08, 2012, 11:52:53 PM
Just some more random ideas for names: Esper, Eidolon, Aeon, Sprite,
...And yet I didn't think of those, lol.
Sprite might be a branch of the Fae family in the game I am making. But Aeon and Eidolon sound pretty nice.