Fast game vs Slow game

[CCGer]

So how do you guys think about summoning sickness after looking at Battle Spirits? I personally think that while summoning sickness can make the game slower, it still adds in more strategic thought and planning in the game compared to those games without it (except for some ) which always appear to be guessing games or at least soon after the game started. 

[Ripplez]

it depends on the game

[sneaselx]

It all really depends partly on whether an unresponded action is a catastrophe or not, as well as the ability of each player to respond to each other's actions. A game with lots of reaction cards would be able to respond to anything quickly, and part of the strategy would be remaining ready for anything. These games would tend to be played out in quick, violent bursts, followed by long periods of preparation. These would possibly be more chess-like than the slower version, because the strategy would be manipulating your opponent, and trying to attack in an unexpected way, while still maintaining a good defence. A game with "summoning sickness" would be characterized by a constant, low key conflict, with each player making an action, and the next player trying to block it or make an opposing action. This style would focus on trying to slowly wear down both players, and a single mistake could prove catastrophic. The feeling of this would be more tense and suspenseful, but not exciting.

[CCGer]

Oh yeah! I almost forgot about the word "excitement" ! So a fast game can be more exciting while a slow game can be more tense. Both can be almost as equally strategic if the game mechanics are done properly. Hm........ So guys, which type of TCG do you think is better with summuning sickness and which type is not?

By the way, when you play chess or GO (or any other chess-like games), do you feel it is exciting or tense?

[Tokimo]

Chess, when played correctly, is slow and abstract. The progress in the game isn't measured by pieces captured, but instead strength of your position on the board. This is more like Magic than 'more exciting' games.

Personally, I find close games exciting. Some of the most exciting games I play in magic are with a control deck that just slows everything down.

[Ripplez]

"A game with "summoning sickness" would be characterized by a constant, low key conflict, with each player making an action, and the next player trying to block it or make an opposing action."  -  if your monsters have no summoning sickness, your going to have to have a monster out pretty much every turn in case of stuff like : "when this attacks/does damage, your opponent discards a card/destroys a card/discards cards from the deck/loses +X life...". this usually leads to quite bad consequences if unchecked, especially since each effect could make it even harder to make a comeback.

" This style would focus on trying to slowly wear down both players, and a single mistake could prove catastrophic." - you can summon more than one monster a turn if the cost system allows it. also, summoning sickness is why this does NOT always prove catastrophic, you always have one turn to respond to your opponents threats. this is more taxing on the person playing the creature since they have declared an option early without being able to use it. but there are reasons why this doesnt always fail - the ability to play more than one monster(cost system), a monster hp system thats more lenient(game rule), your opponent not playing destruction or having it on them(game rule).

this is why i said it depends on the game. you can always construct a game simply to defeat the purpose of summoning sickness, thats why the flow of the game matters.

stereotypicaly, tense games have summoning sickness, exciting games dont. however, a tense game can arise in a hasted game since at any point, especially if you have some degree of knowledge of your opponents options, you have to anticipate a monster coming out of nowehre to smack you around. games with summoning sickness are supposed to be slower and more controlled. nonce you understand WHY a game is so tense though, it can be exciting to have your options and decisions actualy mean something over the course of a game. it depends on the player i think but thats just my opinon :S

also, chess isnt always slow. they have speed games with varying time limits that do not actualy suck

[CCGer]

When I say chess, I mean chess during pro tournaments. I don't know, but I keep feeling that chess is most of the time very slow.
And as for GO, in a pro tournament, if not mistaken a game can last for 2 days! After the first day, if the game does not end, the game will be sealed (meaning that all positions of the stones are recorded) and will be continued on the next day!!

By the way, I think it would be better to explain what is a tense game and what is an exciting game and give some examples for example MTG, Yugioh or anything. What are their differences? Which one is more popular?


I kept wanting to create a TCG that has similsr movement system like chess. However, I think the game might be too slow and too technical which might turn off beginners. (I realised that many people dislike chess the first time they were introduced to it. Only some who are more patient ends up liking chess. And more people prefer Poker or maybe Uno too.) Chess also tend to have features where one single mistake or miscalculation and it is all over (or at least it becomes extremely hard to come back) I do not want such thing in my game. I want a system where the losing player can be compensated in some way like in Duel Masters (extra card from shield) and Battle Spirits (extra cores in your Reserve when you lose life or creatures)

I hope my game can be beginner friendly and at the same time, have depth for advance play. Sometimes I keep thinking, a TCG that is similar to chess might be mind challenging but not fun to play. I am really looking forward to hear your advice and also answers for my questions above. Thanks.

[sneaselx]

I think any game that pits two people against each other with a set of rules that allows a large number of interactions between them will be highly strategic, just because there are two people playing it.

On chess, I feel it is more tense then exciting,  because you make your move, and it's suspenseful to see whether they will fall into your trap or not, etc. Also, I'm fairly certain that worldwide chess is more popular than UNO, though I'm not sure about poker. I think to be truly exciting, a game would have to encourage a large amount of moves in a short space of time, (exmp. Many counters and blocks within one turn, all chained together.) though it would be interesting to attempt one without that necessity.

I honestly don't know how Magic would compare, having never bothered actually playing it.

[malarious]

I have been waiting for a card+board hybrid somewhat like heroscape which may be a good base even.  You collect cards (who have a figure) and can utilize a small deck to alter the game a bit, and it would play like final fantasy tactics.. or very similar to anima if anyone has seen that game.

[Cyrus]

I think to be truly exciting, a game would have to encourage a large amount of moves in a short space of time

for some reason this makes me really excited to try and design something. the problem is the first thing that comes to mind is a "fighting" game type system and i really don't like those. maaaybe i will try and brain storm some rules for a game based on squad-based fps games (like call of duty basically). those games are exciting because a lot of crucial information is being decided and countered at a very fast pace... so maybe if you weren't just one of the soldiers, but controlled all of them.

i'm going to go start a post about this idea since a bunch of rules ideas are going through my head and i don't want to derail this topic too much

[CCGer]

Do you guys like games where a single mistake can set you back a lot and makes it difficult to come back? Or perhaps one where you can catch up quite but not too easily as long as it isn't a very fatal mistake? Assumming that both games are equally strategic of course.

By the way, do you guys prefer faster strategy games or strategy games that test your patients a lot?

[Ripplez]

catch up quite but not too easily as long as it isnt a very fatal mistake

AND

faster strategy games

[CCGer]

catch up quite but not too easily as long as it isnt a very fatal mistake

AND

faster strategy games

Which game in the market you consider as a "fast strategy game" that fits your liking?
Is it MTG, Duel Masters, chess or any thing?

[Ripplez]

mostly fighting games

rogue-likes like nethack too

if you want a tcg, magic.

board games : chess

[CCGer]

Yugioh doesn't have summoning sickness and game play is generally faster than MTG. Lets say that if Yugioh is well balanced, will you perfer Yugioh or MTG?