VS System Redesign - Advice Wanted

[GnKoichi]

For anyone who likes working on game designs, or is especially familiar with the VS system:

Since the VS game is dead, I'm thinking of putting together a fan set (hopefully the first of many, with lots of community input). But I was thinking of making one design change.

I want to take the curve out of the game. Instead of having 1 resource on turn one and 7 resources on turn 7, I'm thinking of setting up a system where every turn you have the exact same amount that you can spend on cards (similar to Young Jedi). There would have to be various changes to accommodate this, like allowing some system for saving resource points from one turn to the next, possibly. Anyone have opinions on this? Ways to implement it? Pitfalls I might not have thought of?

While we're at it, anyone else interested in working on this in general?

[Cyrus]

The curve is part of the game, if you take that out, it isn't VS System. I'd say if you want to do something like that, make a whole new game based completely on the old rules plus your change, and market it to Vs System players, admitting that it is basically the same.

One of the pot holes I can imagine with this is simple - second turn 3 cost characters. From there you'd probably keep playing with the curve, but it seems like the only real change the rule would have is making 1 costs worse because putting out a 3 cost on turn 2 is just better seeming. Or a 6 cost on turn 3... jeez.

Maybe what you should do is a make a 2 or 3 cost Plot Twist that lets you put the top card of your deck directly into the Resource Row, or something to that effect. Or an Ongoing Plot Twist that lets you put a card from your hand into your Resource Row at the cost of a Resource Point.

Anyways that's just my input though, I'm interested in where this leads either way

[Turonik]

While I did find the curve annoying in VS I think something like a built in card search mechanic would be better, like discard 1or 2 cards or lose so much endurance to search your deck for a character and play them that way it'd cut down on the luck factor, but having a set number per turn could possibility throw the game out of whack by giving certain decks more of an advantage while giving others a severe handicap.

However my biggest wish for a VS reboot is  getting rid of the initiative or rather changing it how it works. I would opt for a pass/play style of play. Meaning instead of the player with the initiative getting to make all his attacks first then after he's done, his opponent can, players alternating making attacks or using powers or events that can be used instead of attacking (I.e cards that say use only if you can attack). This will also help mellow out the curve since a lot of the games I've played Your even turns are your best ones to have the initiative. Going with pass play would make it more strategic and more interactive instead of players having turns where they are forced to ball up to survive the onslaught. That to me isn't fun nor is it very realistic of a battle between two groups.

other than that I'd possibly think about removing some of the more useless or complex keywords with the reboot to keep it simplified. And I'd like to see more distinction between the different teams (something I never really seen before. not to say there hasn't been some unique teams but for the most part they just blurred together for me)

If you're looking for help I wouldn't mind lending a hand.

[GnKoichi]

Thanks for the initial input guys.

@Cyrus
I was thinking that I would have to re-balance the character power levels between costs, so that it really was an equally valid decision on any turn to play 2 2-Cost characters or 1 4-Cost character. I have a feeling this would involve making the weakest characters stronger and the strongest characters weaker. Some playtesting here may be needed to prove it out.

@Turonik
Since I'm just stealing all the things I like about other games anyway, another way to cut down on the randomness would be to use Babylon 5 style starting hands, where you get to pick exactly what you start with. This way you're sure to get those 1, 2, or 3 drops you need to start the game fairly. This could still be combined with the removal of the curve. Something to think about.

I really like your idea for initiative and I'll probably use it. I also agree that some keywords need to be removed or changed. Evasion, for example, seems silly to me. I may just have never understood it, but I can't think of any really good ways to use it.

[Turonik]

Not entirely sure the curve needs to go because it's not the low cost characters that I was afraid of not drawing it's the later ones. You can give it a go but I agree with cyrus, getting rid of the curve would make it lose it's identity too much.

[Cyrus]

I still think the best bet here would be to great a brand-new superhero fighting force ccg (because there's already enough that making another one at this point isn't really weird). Don't be shy about pulling heavily from Vs System, but you could definitely use some of the suggestions here.

So basically the combat system is the same, but tweak initiative to make the turns even more simultaneous feeling
Keywords are "redone." Start from scratch, add new ones as you release sets
Resource System is different. Whether you go with my idea or not is up to you.
Maybe incorporate that starting hand idea? I haven't played Babylon 5, but maybe you should only get to choose 3 cards to start with, then draw 2-4 more random ones?
More differences between teams! I always felt like Vs System was basically using little rules and pluses to power and such in place of really cool game mechanics that make different heroes work differently like they do in comics/shows/movies or whatever.
You could use pics from live action movies or directly from comics to differentiate your game from Vs even more
Maybe make Heroes and Villains less likely to appear alongside each other in a deck? Some sort of penalty if they're in the same row in a formation or something?

Starting to sound like a very different game to me... Anyways, that's just my 2 cents (which I think puts me at 4 cents at this point )

[Turonik]

Or you could always work on releasing Marvel Super stars.... a game I was looking forward to until it just went on hiatus... permanently I'm afraid  Ok that's just my dream but alot of the stuff you were mentioning are/were going to be in the game.