Most interesting CCG theme?

[Wisp]

What sorts of themes make you feel compelled to play a CCG?

What kind of the is most interesting and compelling to play.

The basic part of this question is fantasy vs. sci-fi vs. real world, and all the various permutations thereof.

But I think what might be more important is how the feel of the gameplay reflects the flavour of the game.

For example, a game where each player is a general, controlling his armies. When playing you feel the fact that you are general, sending armies to battlefields.

Or maybe you're an emperor; not only do you have to command an army but you must also make sure your economy is working.

Are you the head of a spy origination. Are you a lone fighter doing in 1on1 combat against an opponent.

One let down of M:tG is that I never felt like I was a wizard battling another wizard (which is the basic theme of the game), I felt like I was just playing cards because that's what the game required of me.

I'd like feedback on what sort of themes you like to play, examples and how the theme ties into game play.

[Dan55]

The theme I like is one where the game feels like an adventure happening.  Something where, in the game play, special events occur and a story is being told.  For me, head to head combat games are a dime a dozen.

[Wisp]

A co-op adventure or a competitive one? Could you go into more detail?

[Trevor]

I tend to think coop games aren't balanced well, even if they are, they can lead to players feeling that way. If you lose, you can feel the game was too hard. If you win, you can feel like the game was too easy. The only way things are balanced is if you compete with another person.

[MLaRF]

I find my favourite themes tend to be the ones where the player represents something in the actual world as opposed to just something entirely different. For example, in Yu-Gi-Oh it says you take the role of a "duelist," but the actions of and events happening to the monsters are separate from those of the duelist. Even in the show, there cards are just cards, and the duelists are regular old people (you can interpret that both ways and it will be correct) who just play the card game. Magic and Pokemon, for example, pull me in a lot because the player takes the role of something actually in the same universe; for example, in Pokemon, we know from the games that the trainers are the ones who send out and command the pokemon in battle, while Magic has even woven the "planeswalker" thing in so deeply that planeswalkers themselves eventually became cards. It's also another reason why I find it hard to remember anything about Yu-Gi-Oh sets but easy to remember sets from the other games, because the former are just viewed as a game while the latter are viewed as a story in a certain place at a certain time. I'd even go so far as to say that Yu-Gi-Oh treating itself as just a game is what makes it feel least like a game, because the duelists aren't interacting with the world of the monsters, despite the fact that games are primarily about interaction with the events.

But, YMMV obviously, those are my thoughts on why I personally feel more connected to certain games while I'm playing them. (Though it's not like it's an invalid claim just for being an opinion, unless you don't want your game to be the best it can possibly be.)

[Wisp]

Oh I completely agree!

Could you give me some examples of what you'd like too see in terms of immersive story?

[Turonik]

Oh I completely agree!

Could you give me some examples of what you'd like too see in terms of immersive story?

I know this wasn't aimed at me but I'll give my 2 cents anyway.


There are plenty of games that have immersive stories, the most well known is Legend of the five rings. In it you are an adviser to a clan in the fictional land of Rokugan, where each clan is diverse and preforms a certain duty within the empire. While the flavor of the story is heavily based upon Japanese mythology, players of the game can effect the official story line and is one the selling points of the game. Every year there is a series of tournaments which players whom win can effect the story line.

I find this great since your not just playing a "deck" but rather a representative of clan and fight for their honor and glory. This is much more dynamic than say magic's storyline which is very static since players have no control over how the story progresses and when you play, you never feel that you're really there in a new world.

[Burst]

I'll throw out the dissenting voice, or at least the voice of restraint.

An overly strong theme can be harmful to the game as well.

One of the great things about Magic is the ability to build decks that are, in theory, oppositional.
Blue and Red are enemy colors but counter burn decks have been risen in various incarnations since the game's inception.
Black/Green  and Black/White have also been strong.

Some of the neatest and strongest decks have been 4 and 5 color, completely abandoning game themes in favor of pure card quality and overall interaction.

Sets that had an overly strong theme were generally panned by players.  The "Tribal" sets were largely a failure because everyone had to play essentially the same decks.  Merfolk decks look like Merfolk decks.  Elf decks look like Elf decks, Goblin decks look like Goblin decks, etc. Sure, you can deviate from the established themes but then you're likely falling into the "casual and weak" category rather than the "innovative and strong".

Players play these deck construction games because we enjoy the card interactions as we put our game together.  My friends and I love Magic but I have not, nor to my knowledge, have any of them ever felt "immersed" in the game story.  Through sheer repetition most of us know that goblins are red, dumb and self destructive, phyrexians are black and usually involve some sort of sacrifice or special pain, most things with urza or mishra in the name have something to do with artifacts, etc.  But we don't care.  What we enjoy are the challenges of finding which cards work with each other best.  I like digging through my collection finding just the right effect to fill in some hole in my strategy.  Color is an influence because of cost but not because I actually care about the background theme associated with that color.

To reverse-quote one of Trevor's notes on game construction:  "I WILL play Fold the Laundry" if that's the effect my deck needs.

A downside to this is I hate the effects that say "name a card" because, unless it's simple or I've played it hundreds of times I frequently don't know the names of the cards but I'll know their cost, effect, power/toughness, type, sub-type etc.

I also dislike foreign cards because I almost never know what the pictures are for a card. Quite honestly I rarely look at them.  There are exceptions of course, I like Avon's lands; but there are a lot cards I play with regularly that I know solely by their text.  I've played with a lot of proxies over the years, so a lot my cards look like basic mountains 

Theme isn't bad; if you have to market a game with Lightning Bolt vs a game with Fold the Laundry,  the bolt will probably sound more exciting.  When actually playing the game though, the quality of the card design and play interaction is much more important.

[Shockpulse]

"Cardfight!! Vanguard" makes a huge deal about Cray, Vanguards, and imagination.... and I do so love imaging things! But I almost never do when I play a CCG. To me, the cards themselves are the great part. A physical manifestation of the powers I'm wielding, and being able to hold them is a thrill. This is part of why I always liked "Yu-Gi-Oh!" over "Pok?mon", in YGO's media the cards are a big part of the story, so holding a real "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" card naturally feels a lot cooler than holding a rare "Mewtwo" card.

As for the theme itself, I love the crazy mixed-up world of "Yu-Gi-Oh!". I can play with a deck full of robots, dragons, wizards, or even magical dolls made of sweets. Being able to mix the cards together and play with some of your favourite things in a single deck is always fun, even if it won't win any tournaments.

I think that's the perfect beauty of CCGs, actually: the endless customizability, as long as the designers allow it.
In "Cardfight", you're stuck to a single group of cards (maybe two) because so many effects require their fellows. In "Pok?mon", you're always going to be battling pocket monsters in a very strict worldsetting. "Magic" has a D&D-like feel, and most others have a very focused setting. But "Yu-Gi-Oh!" has that gem of being able to make a deck of anything you want, and with thousands upon thousands of cards, it's hard to choose sometimes!