Do we need elements?

[Malagar]

Strange post title. A short post this time, plain and simple:

Does every card game require elements (Fire, water etc.) like found in Magic: The Gathering?

Is it a must to seperate card types into elemental-flavored classes?

I say: No. I further say: It limits design space. There are other ways to categorize.

Your thoughts? Do all dwarves have to be red?

[3XXXDDD]

Yes and No.

We don't need to classify/categorize by Elements/Colors but we do need to classify/categorize by some distinction otherwise you'll end up in a position of "Golden Cuffs" or "Staples" as in generic games like Yu-Gi-Oh where cards rise to insane prices because they can essentially be splashed into pretty much any deck (Pot of Duality, Tour Guide from the Underworld, Heck even the rare Chain Disappearance) with only a layer of archetypal flavoring on top (Gadget decks are a perfect example of this). In fact, I think Konami realized that and is one of the reasons they have been printing this considerably full-fledged archetypes recently that require a large space of dedication in your deck to work efficiently.

You propose that classifying by colors limits design space but then you also propose that there are other ways to classify other than colors, wouldn't these alternatives also limit design space as well then?

Cardfight!! Vanguard is a game created by Bushiroad and has quite the success in the past year, in this game they have various "Nations" which each have their own theme with clans within those Nations who use different aspects of the overlying theme

E.g 1

Nation: United Sanctuary - Theme: Advantage
Clan: Royal Paladin - Theme: Swarming Units to the field
Clan: Oracle Think Tank - Theme: Drawing cards

These are both examples of gaining advantage in relatively different ways

E.g 2

Nation - Dragon Empire - Theme: Control
Clan: Kagero - Destroy Units
Clan: Nubatama - Discarding Opponent's Cards (Note: This is actually a discontinued theme because the concept is relatively broken in Vanguard)

This does a few things for the game, firstly every clan has something of a distinctly unique style and secondly due to the generic cards that are cloned throughout each series, it lets the prices on the second hand market be relatively steady.

[Malagar]

hello, thank you for your quick and detailled answer!

well of course we need another way to classify.

in my game i use a concept similar to the "nations" you explained. its a two layered concept actually as all cards are A.) aligned to a nation and B.) aligned to either Good, Evil or Neutral (actually you could interpret the alignments as trimmed down magic colors).

now, you can mix all kinds of nations in your deck, but you cannot mix Good and Evil cards. you can include neutral cards or make a deck 100% out of neutrals.

my initial thought was to introduce colors as well, but having a triple layered concept is just a bit over the top. removing one of the layers on the other hand, would return the system practically to the magic colors (no matter if called nations or alignments instead of colors).

i think we can say that categories are a must, colors are not (badly worded statement).

maybe someone else has an idea.

[Turonik]

Here's my short answer: Absolutely Not.

and here's it a bit better explained. Most people feel the end to add the elements to create variety, like somethings are easier to do in one color than they are in another. This does stem from magic. However there are a plethora of games that while they still have separate groups, don't use the elements to divide them.

Most notable example of this is Legend of the Five Rings (l5r) where (currently) 9 clans are playable, where each is represented by there own card color. There's plenty of games that do this, Doomtown, Warlord, Spycraft, 7th Seas, Legend Of the Burning Sands, WARS, Lord of of the Rings, Star Trek, ect.

If you don't want to do something in your game then simply don't do it, there's plenty of ways to do things in a  card game, the problem is most people only ever play the magic or yugioh and think those are the only ways to do things.

[Ajezla]

I actually prefer games like Call of Cthulhu and MagiNation to Magic and YuGiOh. CoC doesn't even use any type of element base, it has specific factions, similar to the clans in L5R. MagiNation uses Regions, which have an elemental base to them, but more related to the theme of the region itself, rather than a strict element. If there is any real element to MagiNation, it is more centered on the fact that everything is pretty much made of the essence of dreams.

I don't think an element system is necessary, its just easy to design a game around. I find that systems that don't use any elemental base at all tend to be more original.

[wizardgib]

I think this topic should be divided into two questions...What is the age group you are trying for in your system and what is your ultimate goal for the system you are designing? Elements and colors appeal to a younger age range and lets face it: markets better too. Elements are visually more appealing and therefore get more attention. Card games like Five Rings are more subtle and target more serious gamers who are more interested in deep strategy. Ultimately I think, people will want a game that appeals both visually and boost playability as the player becomes more involved and gets deeper into the game. Of course, the perfect game..or the next best thing.