LackeyCCG

The king and his three sons are murdered, right in front of the guards eyes. Without any heir, the lords and ladies  of the great houses are all trying to claim the empty throne. The warriors of ferlan reach and the wizards of Dragon's Peak are in an uprise. The Guard is trying to maintain the little piece left in the war torn kingdom. Rebels,barbarian clans and monsters are gathering at the kingdoms borders, ready to pillage everything.

When the fog of war is lifted, the only victor will be Death.


This is the thread about my new card game "Kingdom at War". It is a game about war, politics, corruption and diplomacy. The game is designed with multiplayer in it's mind, and the major rules will be about multiplayer.

Updatelist can be found here: http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/ocg/updatelist.txt

Rulebook can be found here. (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/Rulebooks/Kingdom%20at%20war%20Rulebook.pdf)

Quick Reference Sheet can be found here (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/Rulebooks/Quick%20Reference%20Sheet.pdf)

Please ask only questions about the game, cards, and rules in this thread.

Please ask questions or issues with the plugin at the plugin thread. (http://www.lackeyccg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1185.0)

I'm intrigued! Would love to hear more about this =)

Faction Information

Victory Conditions:

You win if
- You control 3 or more locations.
- You have the most influence when a kingsmeet is called.
- You are the only player left.

You lose if
- your draw deck is empty
- your leader is destroyed.


Calling a kingsmeet
Any player who has 20 or more influence, or through card effects, may call a kingsmeet. When a kingsmeet is called, the game continues. At the end of the NEXT round, the player with the most influence wins the game. This doesn't have to be the player who called the kingsmeet.

Influence
Influence is gained by putting cards from your draw deck into your influence pool. If influence is lost, that amount of cards is put from your influence pool on the bottom of your draw deck.

Start up
To play, each player needs the following
- A 61-card draw deck.
- A 20-card fate deck.
- 2 lands.

First, each player puts their lands in the middle of the play field. Each player must be able to reach them.
Each player search their decks for a character card, and put it into play as their leader. If this character is destroyed, you lose the game! So make sure you pick a good character.
Then, each player shuffle their fate and draw decks. These decks must stay seperated.
At last, each player draws five cards, and put the top four cards of their deck in their influence pool.

Card previews! Still working on the rules...
The left card can be chosen as the leader, while the right card can't.
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7919/selraferyn.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2638/guardmilitia.jpg)

Reworking both card design and resource generation.

EDIT: Removed the leader.. Didn't work out with card design etc...

UPDATE AT LAST!

Reworked both the turn system, resource system, & combat system.


Influence
Each player starts the game with four influence tokens in his or her influence pool. With card effects, players can gain or lose influence tokens. Players can never have less than three influence tokens. When spending influence tokens, move that many tokens to that card (When using a card ability) or to your spend pool. Spend influence isn't lost. Influence tokens on cards and the spend pool count towards your victory.
At the start of each round, each player moves all influence tokens from cards & spend pool to their influence pool.


Resources
Each card may be played upside down as a resource. Resources have a number on it, meaning how much that resource is worth. Players may play only one resource each round.
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7483/resourcesystem.jpg)
Player has 2 resources, one of 1 and one of 2, and four unspend influence tokens.

To pay resources for a card or other costs, move that many influence tokens to resources worth that much. You may use multiple resources to pay for costs.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5338/resourcesystempart2.jpg)
player has paid for a card cost 2, and he has 1 resource remaining and two influence tokens.

Also, new card previews with the new layout.
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1171/ruralvillagev2.jpg) (http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9866/menatarmsv2.jpg)

[Round system removed due many issues. Am now testing normal turn structure to see what fits better.]

Rule Change
Character -> Unit

Uniqueness
Cards with a solid dot before their name are unique. When an unique card enters play while there is another unique card in play, it enters play with a imposter token on it. Cards with imposter tokens are considered imposters and may not use any unique reactions or actions. Several cards care if you have imposters or not.
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7364/kharvv2.jpg)
In this example, Kharv can exhaust units even if he is an imposter. However, only the original Kharv can damage exhausted characters.

Great post I must say.. Simple but yet entertaining and engaging.. Keep up the good work!

Looks like a very interesting project!  A few questions:

1.  Don't you need the rules, more or less, before you can design cards?  Do you have more of the rules than you have shown us?

2.  It would be good to know more about the strengths and weaknesses of the various factions.  How is playing House Feryn different mechanically from playing The Guard, Sial, Margon, Ferlan or Dragon's Peak?

3.  It would be good to be a little clearer on the character and attitudes of the various factions.  You comment on their history, which helps, but it would be most helpful to simply be told their character rather than having to work it out from their actions.

Quote from: Greg 1 on September 25, 2010, 05:29:00 PM
1.  Don't you need the rules, more or less, before you can design cards?  Do you have more of the rules than you have shown us?

I usually make them when I go along with the ride. :P.

Quote from: Greg 1 on September 25, 2010, 05:29:00 PM
2.  It would be good to know more about the strengths and weaknesses of the various factions.  How is playing House Feryn different mechanically from playing The Guard, Sial, Margon, Ferlan or Dragon's Peak?

I will tell you soon when I update to the latest version.

Quote from: Greg 1 on September 25, 2010, 05:29:00 PM
3.  It would be good to be a little clearer on the character and attitudes of the various factions.  You comment on their history, which helps, but it would be most helpful to simply be told their character rather than having to work it out from their actions.

See under 2.

Update 23/10
Sorry for the lack of updates, but I was busy.. However, holiday has arrived :D

I updated the CCG at a few points
1. I am unsatisfied by using "units", so they will switch back to "character" again.

2. Card layout received an update.

3. A new global stat has been added, Morale. Each player starts out with 0 morale and can have a maxium of 5 morale. Certain cards can increase or lower morale. Also, winning or losing battles increases/decreases morale. Morale can be used for three things. It can be used to reduce the cost of a card by 1. (limit once for each card) It can be used to increase your combat stat once a combat. And certain cards use morale to improve.

4. As of now, Dragon's Peak isn't a major faction anymore. Instead, they will appear on neutral cards and cards from other factions with the trait "Dragon's Peak" This change is made because magic is a bit rare, and it will cause imbalance in the factions. Also, they are the only faction with no clear motivation for war.

5. Combat has been revised, more info will appear later this week.

New card image!
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2908/greyfular.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/greyfular.jpg/)

More info tomorrow
EDIT: image link broken -_-

House Feryn
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/15/heraldryferyn2.png)
Long-time rivals of House Margol, they were forced to join Theun the Conquerer to beat Ferlan Reach. Suspected to take bribes from the northern barbarians and traitors and smuggeling goods out and into the country. Now the king has died, there is no mistake where House Feryn's loyality lies - by itself.

Feryn doesn't have the toughest characters out there, however, they have some of the most powerful manipulation effects. Exhausting and readying, card draw and discard, and influence movement. Many cards are themed around politic combat. They lack, however, means to remove enemies from the field.

The Guard
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5443/heraldryimperial2.png)
Once formed to protect Theun and his bloodline from any danger and to protect the order in the kingdom, allowing everyone into it's ranks, from lowly commoner, to the highest prince. However, because the king died in front of the guard, many people are questioning it's effectiveness. However, they are the only thing that prevents the kingdom from falling apart.

The guard's characters aren't tough, but numerous. Rallying many cards with cost 3 or less, and having the best morale rising effects in the game, they will stand tall in any defense. Their attacking options, though, are rather limited. The guard thrives on conquest combat.

Sial Crusade
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4818/vol2q.png)
The religious followers of Sial were once peaceful. However, since darkness began to gather, and the king's men did nothing to disperse the evil. They began to take arms against the evil. Becoming more and more fanatic after the king's death, they help the commoners and march against any evil they can find - which is easy in this age of chaos.

The sial crusade excels in survial, not by having a tough defense, but by calling on the lightbringer for their prayers. They can call characters from the grave and remove imposters from the field. Being event heavy, they lack means to use supports and cards against supports. Sial crusade is powerful in religion combat.

House Margol
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2109/heraldrymargol2.png)
House Margol has been gathering wealth and technology since Theon began his conquest. One of the first great houses to support Theun the Conquerer, House Margol is the kingdom's loyal dog. After the king died, House Margol began to gather support for their claim on the throne, using their wealth and powerful technology to remove any opposition.

House Margol has the most useful and powerful support cards in the game. Using attachment manipulation, deck searching and even direct kill, they will walk out of the battlefield alive and unharmed. Margol is powerful in politic and conquest combat.

Ferlan's Reach
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/6430/heraldryferlan2.png)
The clans of Ferlan reach are proud and powerful. Living in ice they value only power. They were the last to join the kingdom. Even after joining the kingdom, the clans retained autonomy and did only follow the kingdom's rule if necessary. Ferlan Reach was the first to rebel against the kindom after the kings death. Determined to gain and hold their freedom forever.

The Ferlans seems barbarians, they can rely on the (unfocused) attention of their gods. Event cancels, strategy manipulation and forceful attacks are their handiwork. Ferlan's Reach lack a proper defence, and ways to avoid annoying characters. Ferlans march on war and religious combat.

Dragon's Peak, Wildlings, Clansman, minor houses[/b
Like said, these cards will apear either neutral, or affliated to one of the five major factions. Minor factions will share traits and focus of major factions, but will have a different twist.

Watermarks
Each card will now have a watermark to show it's affliation with one of the factions. Both major and minor factions will have different watermarks.

War is coming...
The turn structure has been completely changed from the start. Each player has it's own turn, divided in phases. When a turn is over, the next player's turn begins. Now the turn structure works as the following, with the player whose turn it currently is as refered to the active player:
I. Fate Phase: The active player puts a event token on the top card of his event deck, then if the amount of event tokens is equal or more than the number of event points the top card of the active player's event discard pile has, the active player plays the top card of his/her event deck. The active player resolves any actions of the event card, then put it in his/her event discard pile. The event tokens are removed from the event deck.
II. Combat Phase: See the section that handles combat below.
III. Resource Phase: The active player readies all exhausted cards, and restores one routed character he commands. Then he moves all influence from cards he/she commands to his/her influence pool, if the active player has less than four influence, the active player gains influence until he/she has four influence. Then the active player draws two cards.
IV. Marshalling Phase: The active player may play character and support cards from his hand. Those cards may exhaust immedetly.

During each phase, except for the combat phase, each player may take player actions. Player actions include any action a character or support can take and playing strategy cards.

...in all it's glory...
During the combat phase, you want to claim lands and influence, as they are the major victory conditions in the game. As simpely annihilating your adversaries is impossible. During your combat phase, you may assign any number of characters you command to lands in play. When you assign a character to a land, you exhaust them and choose if they either march in the front line, or in the back line. After the attacker assigned his/her attacking characters, any other player may choose to march into the land, assigning their characters to their front and back line, thus exhausting them. Exhausted characters can't participate in combat.

When the armies are set, each player in combat may put a card from his/her hand face down as a tactic. Players may also either put the top card of his/her fate deck face down as a tactic, or play a strategy. When a strategy is played, it is paid for and is played face up. It's actions resolve. Now each player flips his/her tactic face up. The combat stats on the tactic indicate your basic strength. Then each character in the back line adds it's strength to the total strength. The player with the highest strength wins the combat, and may place on of his/her conquest tokens on the land. Also, he must execute his claim. What is claimed depends on the type of tactic is used. Claim results:
War: One character in combat takes one damage for each character in the victor's front line. Characters in the front line must be killed or removed from combat before the back line can be damaged. A character is usually killed with one damage, but characters with high resistance will live longer. Characters outside of combat may not be damaged.
Politic: Each character in the front line claims 1 influence.
Intimidate: One character is routed for each character in the victor's front line. Characters outside of combat may not be routed.
Conquest: The victor may put one additional conquest token on the land for each character in his/her front line.

...and it's horror.
No matter who won, the player that has conquest tokens on a land equal to it's resistance, claims it for himself/herself. When a land is claimed, all conquest tokens are removed from it and it's newfound owner gains an certain amount of influence from it. A claimed land gives one additional total strength to it's owner.

The price has been paid...
Cards discarded from a player's hand, characters and supports that are discard from play are put into it's owner's discard pile. Any character that is killed is put into it's owners graveyard. Any influence on characters and supports that leave play are lost - forever.
When a unique character is played, it gains an imposter token if a non-imposting character with the same name is already in play or any graveyard.
When a routed character is restored, it becomes exhausted.
When you pay influence for character or support actions, said influence is put on the character or support. Influence paid to play cards is put into the player's spend influence pool.

and we emerged victorious!
A player wins if he owns over the half of lands in play at the beginning of his/her turn.
A player wins if he/she called the council last turn. You may call the council during your marshalling phase at the cost of 30 influence.
A player wins if he/she matched a card's victory condition.
A player loses if he/she cannot draw or discard the top card of his/her deck when instructed to do so.
A player loses if he/she matched a card's lose condition.

My excuses for the massive wall of text. Pic's will follow later.
- Dragoon

I just want to say that I really like the flavor of this game that I've seen so far.

It gives a similar vibe to George Martin's "A Game of Thrones" novels.

I think the concept of imposters is fantastic. Have you considered letting the imposter character remove its imposter counter if the original is killed?

Quote from: Typherion on November 13, 2010, 03:34:42 AM
I just want to say that I really like the flavor of this game that I've seen so far.

It gives a similar vibe to George Martin's "A Game of Thrones" novels.

I think the concept of imposters is fantastic. Have you considered letting the imposter character remove its imposter counter if the original is killed?

It was very inspired by a song of fire and ice.

Also, imposters will stay imposters. However, Feryn (and some neutrals) will have cards able of switching imposter tokens.

There will be an update later this week.

Reworked Resource System

Influence costs is now handled differently.

To pay a cost, you move said amount of influence from your stash or from cards you command to your thrash. Then, place an amount of influence on the card equal to it's personal influence. After that, you may move any number of influence from cards or your stash to the played card.

During your 'resource phase', you gain 1 influence, then move all influence from your thrash to your stash. After that, you may move any number of influence on cards you command to your stash or influence from your stash to cards you command.

When a character takes damage, it loses that amount of influence.

Characters with 0 influence are discarded from play directly.

More information + pics will follow later (not on my pc with cards right now)

I like the mechanic but not sure on the terminology. Why would having no Influence cause a warrior to die? The only influence he needs to have on the battlefield is the weight of his axe :D

Quote from: Cyrus on December 14, 2010, 12:48:57 PM
I like the mechanic but not sure on the terminology. Why would having no Influence cause a warrior to die? The only influence he needs to have on the battlefield is the weight of his axe :D

Terminology is a bit annoying, but as you said, a warrior needs weapons to have influence on the battlefield, so influence can come from and for very different things. However, if you have a better suggestion, feel free to tell.

Quote from: Dragoon on December 15, 2010, 09:44:00 AM
However, if you have a better suggestion, feel free to tell.

Of course not :P but if I think of anything I'll let you know

Small update:
Attack & Defense are now one stat: Strength. Done because there wasn't technically an attacker or defender.

Also, I finished the card layout :D Only need to improve some small stuff and finish the land card template (Which I save for the very last)

I will try to write a strategy article this weekend, when I aren't playing the rift beta, that is.

Sorry for the slow updates... (The unhealty combination of school and DoW2 beta)

Anyway, here is the final (I hope) character layout. Hope you like it!

I will try to give layouts of the other card types tomorrow. But I can't promise it.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Back from the dead! I hope.

Anyway, attached is the combat stuff from my rulebook. Hope you like it.

More info will follow.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

Minor update to turn structure:

A turn is broken down in 6 phases, with the player whose turn it currently is as refered to the active player:

1. Event Phase
The active player readies all of his/her enemies. Then he/she reveals the top card of his/her event deck. If it's an event card, put it on the bottom of the event deck. If it's an enemy or an objective, put it into play exerted.

2. Enemy Phase
For each palyer, check if an ready enemy you have can become agressed. An enemy can become agressed if it's agression value is equal or less than the player's faction influence. Enemies with lower agression values become agressed first. If a player has an agressed enemy, no more enemies become agressed towards him. Enemies can attack their owner. - See enemy combat.

3. Conflict Phase
Conflicts are fought in this phase. Conflicts can either be against other players, or against enemies. - See combat and enemy combat.

4. Supply Phase
Do the following:
Add 1 influence token to a location you command.
Ready all exerted cards you command.
Draw two cards.

5. Marshalling Phase
The active player may play character and attachment cards from his hand. Those cards may exert immedetly.

6. End Phase
Effects are cleaned up.

Actions
Any player may take any actions at any moment during any turn. Exception are timed actions and battle actions. These may only be used at the said timing.

Also, working at the very final version of card layout. Hope to show it this week.

CARDS!

Attachment, Character, and Strategy card.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

After the playtest with my gaming group, it turns out I have to fix stuff.. A lot of stuff..

Will post new draft rules later this week..

where do you get your card art? I am trying to figure out card art for my game I think i will start a new thread for my game one that is a bit more "inviting". after reading this thread yours is very intriguing, so i need to work on my presentation and maybe i can get more people on my game to help me.

I really want to play this game when it is ready to play

Quote from: cap.tiny on May 18, 2011, 12:35:29 PM
where do you get your card art? I am trying to figure out card art for my game I think i will start a new thread for my game one that is a bit more "inviting". after reading this thread yours is very intriguing, so i need to work on my presentation and maybe i can get more people on my game to help me.

I really want to play this game when it is ready to play

I gather art from deviantart mostly and some fantart sites (blizzard has some EXCELLENT fanart) But you need to look out for not getting unauthorized artwork or copyrighted work.

Template is made using gimp (it's free!) & cards are made by using MSE.

Any feedback on the game?

oh ya i know about the copyright laws VERY well, I have spent 1.5 years in independent study about the the copy__ (right, left..) laws. and its actually ok to use ANYTHING as long as you dont make ANY profit on it at all in any tangible form.

ya i know gimp.. i just aint skilled at all

Blizzard? havent heard of that site yet....

and as for feedback i like to play before any feedback... but it looks awesome so far would love to test play...

wish somebody could help on my plugin for my game so it can be test played by the community.. but thats another thread another time  ..

Reworked Resource System:
I reworked the resource system to make it more accessable  and easier to understand. (The old resource system was very flawed and pretty complicated, according too my testers. I found it too.)
So the resource system now is simple:
- A single resource, trade.
- At the beginning of your turn, you collect 3 trade, plus 1 trade for each coin you have.
- To spend trade, you simpely lose that amount of trade.
- You can buy coins for 2 trade.

Is this simple or not?

Simple Turn Structure.
An easy overview for your turn.
(-) This indicates things you MUST do. You need to be the active player.
(+) This indicates things you MAY do. Any player can do this.

When this sheet refers to you, it refers to you as the active player.

Phase 0: Supremacy Phase
- You resolve Military supremacy.
- You resolve Power supremacy.
- You resolve Economic supremacy.
+ Actions may be taken.

Phase 1: Battle Phase
- Choose an opposing player to attack.
- Both you and the defending player may play a tactic card from your hands face down.
+ Actions may be taken.

- You may march characters to an opposing capital.
+ Actions may be taken.

- The defending player marches characters to oppose yours.
+ Actions may be taken.

- Both you and the defending player choose and exert healed characters to be in the second line.
+ Actions may be taken.

- Resolve Battle.
+ Actions may be taken.

- All surviving characters are marched Home.

Phase 2: Rest Phase
- Heal all your characters.
- Gain Trade
- Draw two cards.
- Discard all your active schemes from play.
+ Actions may be taken.

Phase 3: Reinforcement Phase
+ Actions may be taken.
(When the active player plays a character, attachment or scheme card from his hand or iniates a challenge, it is considered taking an action.)

Phase 4: End Phase
- Your turn ends.
- The player on your left becomes the active player.

I will try to finish the rules soon and post demo decks.

oohh plz do hurry i wanna play

FINALLY

I finshed the rulebook.. It's in pdf file. See demo decks later.. (need to group them into a good format -_-)

Please give feedback if things aren't clear.

The Rulebook can be found here (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/downloads.htm). It isn't in good quality yet.

eh idc about quality ... fun mechanics first for me, then quality later

Erreta:

The following erreta has been applied:

Rest Phase:
- You move all power tokens on cards you command to your power pool.
- You discard all schemes you command from play.

Players don't draw cards during the rest phase anymore.

End Phase:
- You draw a card.

During your turn, you may spend 1 trade to draw a card.
------------------------------------------------------------
Demo Decks:

Demo Decks can be found on the site [Link] (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/downloads.htm)

Direct Link (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/Demo%20Decks.pdf)

If there are things that aren't noted, please say.

Any feedback, hints, or other comments yet?

just havent gtten around to it yet...

Okay, I have a question for tactic wording. Do you guys like the keyword version better(version 1), or the full written version(version 2)? Personally I like the full written version. But I like to know what other people like.

(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/2cloaks.jpg)

I am a fan of keywords so version 1 for me

The second one makes it more obvious that you can only use it once, while the other one reads like an activated ability, thus making it feel like you could use it multiple times. Obviously the rules would clear this up either way, but personally I like the second version more

edit: I might change the wording on the second version to "When revealed as your tactic, you may exert a character..."  Makes it sound more like rules text and less like a sentence, but if you've already chosen the 'syntax' for the game keep it the way it is.

I haven't decided on synthax much, so I will change it if I continue with non-keywords. (It sounds better)

Also, the tactic effect is supposed to fire once. Maybe some cards have effects as long as they are tactics, but that is for later.

is every "tactic" effect a one time effect? Because if so then there is no reason to explain in every card that it only one time. I hope im helping  ;D

True, but the issue is that keywords are static. Meaning once I made them, they have to stay that way forever. (which I don't like :P)

Written:
Pro's
- Editable
- Implementation of new ideas

Con's
- Lots of (same) text

Keyword:
Pro's
- Less text

con's
- static

here is the thing I dont think there is any card game out there that uses just keywords or just written. there is always a mixture. Key words are to replace the effects or effect parts that will come up commonly. they can be changed but harder to change but that  is what play testing is for, so you dont have to change. your more than likely going to end up using these common effects any way

my game is keyword heavy only because i am keeping in mind people who suffer from "morning glory syndrome" but a card game is normally a mix.

Currently, my game is keyword low and I want it to keep it that way. Many keywords will actually make a game more complex than simple.

You hold valid points. I will make it a keyword (with better wording, though) As it is used very often and makes sense.

Thanks for all input.

Keywords so far

Fast  (Fast characters are assigned to a line after other characters.)
Rulings
1.00: During a battle, after both players have assigned characters to a line, players have the option to take a form fast battle lines phase.
1.01: During a form fast battle lines phase, players may assing fast characters to either the front or second line. The attacker forms a fast line first, followed by the defender.
1.02: Characters with fast moved to the second line must be exerted.
1.03: You can't move exerted fast characters to the second line, as you can't exert exerted characters.
1.04: Characters with fast may be moved to a line during the normal form battle lines phase.

Restricted (A card can have only one restricted attachment attached to it at any time.)
Rules:
2.00: If a card has a restriced attachment attached to it, no other restriced attachment may be attached to it.
2.01: If there is no legal target for a restricted attachment, discard the attachment from the field.
2.02: Cards that move attachments may only move restriced attachments to cards without restriced attachments.

Tactic (Activate this ability when you reveal this card as your tactic)
Tactic is an action keyword, meaning that it's rule text will appear after it's effect.
Rules:
3.00: A tactic ability only activates when it is revealed as your tactic.
3.01: Tactic abilities are added to the chain (See "The Chain" for rules on the chain)
3.02: Tactic abilities only fire once.

Any hints on how to word the Tactic keyword better.

add a rules mechanic : revelation

Revelation : the act of revealing a card to confirm its stats, type etc.



now write tactics : activates upon revelation

does that work?

lol i dont think i have ever seen a rules mechanic keyword just explaining to "reveal".. not trying to bash or anything but thats a bit extreme

its not a keyword for the game. its a mechanic name for the rules, like "deck" or "hand" or "play a card". having the action named means that you can make shorter rules text for flipping cards face-up from face-down, showing a card from the hand, showing the top card of your deck etc

and it was just a suggestion

oh ok i was confused... i am easily confused

Well, I was thinking in the same vein to shorten "when this is put into the funeral prye from the field" to "dies". But the major issue with this is that it doesn't cover other card types. (attachments & schemes)

As for reveal.. Just no...

Looking trough my rules made me realize that I forget to add in several important concepts. Damn.

Anyway, here they are.

Deck Building
1. A deck must be of exactly 60 cards.
2. You can't include more than 3 cards that have the same english name.

Factions don't limit the amount of cards you can include. However, lot's of cards work better in the same faction.

Important Concepts

Morale
During a match, players can gain or lose morale. You can't have less than 0 morale. There is no limit on morale. During a turn, you can spend morale for the following effects:
In battle:
- You can spend 1 morale to add 1 strength to your total.

During your turn:
- You can spend 1 morale to lower the trade cost by 1. You can only do this once.

You gain morale the following ways:
- You gain 1 morale if you win a battle as the defender.

Also, several card effects affect the way you gain or lose morale.

awesome

Continueing where I left off yesterday.

Wheeling and Dealing
Need more trade, coins or power? Trade for them, beg for them or make promises.  Need someone toleave you alone? Pay them off. It’s all part of the game...
just remember, words and promises are not binding. Just because a player has made an action doesn’t mean it has to occur. You are free to wheel-and-deal to get them to change their decision. Negotiations, however, must begin immediately after the action is declared.

However, the following rules apply to deals:
- Communication is in public.
- Only trade, coins, and power may be traded.

- As an optional rule, if all players agree before the game begins, cards on the field may be traded during the reinforcement phase of a player's turn.

Card previews will come later.

Slow updates are slow.

Some changes made:

Deckbuilding
Now a deck only requires 40 cards, instead of the early 60. The game is a bit too fast to play with 60 cards (you never got trough half your deck!)
Also, player require only 10 power to win a game. (I believe this was also in the rules, but I have to say it anyway)

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!

The first set, Shattered Crown, will be available on Lackeyccg as a plugin before Thursday, 21 June, 20:00 GMT-1. This is the ultimate deadline I set myself, though it might get up earlier (I will let you guys know)



About Design: Part 1
Well, as I decided to give some previews, I might as well give some design philosophy around the five factions. This time, the Royal Guard. First of all, I classify all factions I build as either Force or Intrigue. The Guard is a Force faction, which means their power lies on the battlefield. Don't get me wrong, these guys have some tricky effects too, but aren't that good compared to the sneaky House Feryn. Also, I build factions around several center mechanics. One major, and several minors. The major effect is really unique only to that faction, while minor effects can bleed into other factions. Allowing you to build multi-faction decks.


Well, here can you see one of the strategies for the guard, as well as their major effect: 1-cost character synergy. Of course, other factions will have 1 cost guys too, but not as many as the Guard has, nor as great as some of the guard 1-drops.


As you can see, the 1-cost character Johan will only benefit Guard characters on the same battlefield as him (and only if he isn't some lousy doppleganger) But he also can claim some political power! What will you choose?

As the game was designed with multiplayer in mind, each faction has what have to be called 'political' cards. Cards that will benefit both you and an opponent. Or just you, if you want to, but there are other cards that might be more effective for that

Looks amazing, really professional. Definitely willing to give it a try once the plugin is up. Well done!

1

About Design: Part 2
One of the hardest and most difficult parts of the game was to set combat right. One of the first incarnations of battle blatantly copied the Call of Cuthulu mechanic and used locations to conquer. While it did fit (a bit), I found it annoying and hard to balance, as not all icons/abilities were worth equal and some where just worthless. After a few other tried idea's, I came up with the system to use tactic cards for battle. Because of this, players that are low on characters could still win a battle. Out of this tactic system simplified the combat system until I had only one stat left. To futher simplify the system, I discarded the maneuvers and other complex stuff. (You can read it back in the thread, somewhere)


As you can see, I finally used the idea of naming tactics types. Each tactic type can defeat another tactic type (but not rock-paper-scissor style!) and each type has a set amount of strength they contribute to the battle. There are four tactics at the moment. Skirmish, which can defeat no tactics, but has 4 strength. Flank, which defeats skirmish, and contributes 3 strength. Surround, which defeats skirmish AND flank, but only contributes 2 strength. And finally Rally, which won't defeat any tactic and contributes no strength, but usually has a powerful tactic effect. Both Surround and Rally can't be defeated by other tactics. When a tacitc is defeated in a battle, that tactic doesn't counts it's strength. So if your Skirmish gets Flanked, you better hope you have a sturdy second line.


Finally, these previews are from House Feryn, one of the Noble Houses factions. As you can see, this faction isn't that great in battle, but it is pretty versiable, with lots of characters with Fast. Also, this faction is focussed on card adventage, board control due exerting, and intrigues. More about intrigues at a further preview.

that's really interesting

keep it up!!!

Naming changes made & term list.
I find one of the more important aspects of the game to be flavor. As said in an earlier preview, the change of battle tactics with names is one of such changes. Also, I made some changes to capture the feel better.

Possession - This is a minor name change from attachment. I choose it because people can possess both titles and blessings, as well common items.

Event - Replaces strategies. This is a bit major change, as events have no trade costs. Instead, usually events require you to exert/spend trade/influence/power. Some old strategies have become schemes, while others have become events. The major factor for changing this is the fact that strategy and tactic are pretty close and rally tactics usually have some effects. Doing this soldifieds the border between event and tactic.

Exile and Funeral Pyre - Now there are seperate discard piles, Exile and the Funeral Pyre. If a character dies on the field, it goes to the Funeral Pyre face up. Characters in the Funeral Pyre count towards the uniqueness rule.

Banish - If a card is banished, it is revealed to each player, and is then put face down into Exile. All cards in Exile are face down and only it's onwer may look at them at any time. Other players, however, may only look at the funeral pyre.

Keep - I called the deck 'Capital', but that just doesn't make sense. So I renamed it to 'Keep'.

Term for card.
Currently, I am looking for a term to replace the term 'card'. Card includes Character, Possession, Scheme, and Event. If anybody knows such a term, feel free to say.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS
Ability
Abilities are text on cards. There are three types of abilities: Static abilities, activated abilities, and triggered abilities. Static abilities are active at all times and have no text before them. Activated abilities have a bold ability name before them and requires the user to pay a cost in order to activate the ability. Triggered abilities have a bold condition that must be fulfilled before the ability. When such a condition is met, that ability triggers.

Examples: The ability "Backstab: Spend 1 trade, exert Guild Assassin to exert target character" is an activated ability. It has a name and requires it's user to spend 1 trade and exert the character in order to exert target character. The ability "Blackstone Knight can't be exerted." is a static ability. It is always active and can't be tured off, even if it's commander wishes to exert Blackstone Knight. The ability "When played: Gain 2 trade." is an triggered ability. It will activate each time you play the card and will give you 2 trade each time it is activated.


Banish
When instructed to banish a card, reveal that card to each player, then put it face down into your Exile.

Battlefield
The place where a battle is fought.

Bearer
Possessions are attached to a bearer. When a possession refers to it's bearer, it refers to the character it is attached to. A bearer may bear only one restricted possession.

Cancel
If a card cancels a card, the cancelled card has no effect, and is banished into it's owner's Exile.

Cost
The cost required to marshall a card. There are two types of costs printed costs and additional costs. Printed costs, that are noted in the top left of a card. Addtional costs are noted in the text of a card, after the phrase "To play:". When a card refers to a card cost, it will always refer to the printed cost.

Command
You command the characters and other cards that you have on the field, unless another player uses an ability or card effect to gain command of them. In that case, that player can use it and you can't. When it leaves the field or the game ends, it's returned to you.

Damage
A player with 6 or more damage loses the game.

Dies
A character dies when killed or inflicted a wound while wounded. A character that dies goes to it's owner's funeral pyre.

Exert
To exert a character, wound that character. You can only exert characters that aren't wounded. See wounds.

Kill
A character can be killed by a card effect or by reciving a wound while wounded. Killed characters die. See dies.

Target
When a card uses the word 'target' you choose what the card will affect.

Tactic
A card's tactic effect triggers when you reveal it as your tactic in battle. Tactic effect trigger only once.

Wounds
A character that recives a wound is turned sideways. A character that is turned sideways is considered wounded. When a wounded character recives a wound, it dies.

The only problem I have with any of that is the new discard pile mechanics. It just seems too complicated without adding too much to the strategy of the game. Having a face-down pile gives the edge to player's with sharpened memorization skills as well as encouraging taking notes during the game, which I think should be reserved for strategical notes, not writing down a player's discard pile. The Funeral Pyre idea seems cool, but won't it cause too much of a race to play uniques in mirror matches? I feel like once you kill a dude you should be able to play him for your own cause, even if flavor wise it doesn't make 100% sense.

Oh and I also wouldn't change "card" to anything else.
Just my 2 cents though!

@Cyrus
Hmm, yeah, your words hold true. Having a face down discard pile is a bit annoying. Also, I decided to change that cards in funeral pyres don't count their uniqueness. Seperated discard pile remain tough.

NOTE: As a matter of fact, wounds from exerting a character can't be cancelled.

New logo
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/logo.png)

Also, first card back drafts.
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/card_background.png)

About Design: Part 3
I have updated the number font, say if you like it. (or not, of course)
As said before, battles and the resource system are two of the hardest things to get right, in any game. If you are building a game yourself, those are two of the key points to get right. But I think I finally got them right. I have talked about battle earlier, but I wanted to add some additional things I didn't talk about because it's wasn't finished at the moment.

As you can see, Baldwin Ferag has an skull icon below it's rule text. This indicates that he will add +1 force during a battle if he's in the front line. If such an icon appears on an possession, it adds +1 force if the bearer is in the front line. If you win battle, the defeated player wounds characters equal to the amount of force you have. Each character in the front line gives 1 force. An earlier version used a keyword in the ruletext, but I decided to make an icon of it, making it look better. Btw, the number in the mid bottom is power, more of it later.

An old friend! Rural village popped up in one of the earlier versions of the game and stayed around, as I didn't want to discard it's simple design. Anyway, as stated, the bearer of the village must be your keep. Usually, only characters can bear possessions, unless it's stated on the card. The +1 it gives means that it will give you +1 trade during the supply phase of your turn. During the supply phase, you get 3 trade, plus an amount of trade equal to the amount of coins you have, both coin tokens and coins on cards count. (I.E. If you have 1 coin and Rural Village out, you get an total of 5 trade. Trade doesn't carry over during turns.)

just posting to let ya know that i am still excited about this game  ;D

@cap.tiny
Glad to hear. Any feedback so far?

well i try to hold my feedback til i actually play it. It does look good though. This is very inspiring to my game making.

Phew, House Margol was a pain in the ass to design. I seriously wonder how people think they can design 6+ different factions in a card game. Just five is hard unough. But well, the cards are almost done, just a meager 25 :D.

If I recall correctly, there was some lackeyccg plugin creation application. Can somebody give me a link to it? If it's still valid, that is.

if you want play testers, im still up to help play test this game

Nice to hear. Do you know anything about the lackyccg plugin creation application?

Cards done!

Currently working on plugin and way of easy card export :P (I'm lazy)

Also need to update the rulebook.

I think I can mop it up tomorrow.

Easy export from what? Mse? If that's the case, I wish you the most luck in the world. Some very absent minded using of the space bar totally ruined one of my mse files' ability to export :(

I'd be down for a game if our schedules match up, or if someone you teach wants to teach me at a later date, that may be an even better way to make sure your rules make sense and whatnot

Quote from: Cyrus on July 12, 2011, 11:15:54 AM
Easy export from what? Mse? If that's the case, I wish you the most luck in the world. Some very absent minded using of the space bar totally ruined one of my mse files' ability to export :(

I'd be down for a game if our schedules match up, or if someone you teach wants to teach me at a later date, that may be an even better way to make sure your rules make sense and whatnot

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Goddamn spaces, export from mse works now.

Quote from: Dragoon on July 12, 2011, 12:21:08 PM

Quote from: Cyrus on July 12, 2011, 11:15:54 AM
Easy export from what? Mse? If that's the case, I wish you the most luck in the world. Some very absent minded using of the space bar totally ruined one of my mse files' ability to export :(

I'd be down for a game if our schedules match up, or if someone you teach wants to teach me at a later date, that may be an even better way to make sure your rules make sense and whatnot

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Goddamn spaces, export from mse works now.

Haha glad to help! It's always the simplest thing that mucks up everything else

@Cyrus
That is a fact.

Anyway, cards are currently uploaded here (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=11903978). Plugin is almost done, so I only need to mock up the rulebook. Looks like I'm going reach the deadline :D

awesome... wish there was a "like" button like on facebook lol

Plugin is live!

http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/ocg/updatelist.txt

Simpely use the link to "install or Update from URL" (Copy/past link) And it should work.

Rulebook will be updated later.
Quickstart guide will be updated later too.

Post any rule issues you have here. I will make a plugin thread when I finish the rulebook/quickstart.

DON'T POST PLUGIN ISSUES HERE. ONLY RULE/GAME ISSUES ONLY!

thanks in advance

EDIT: 6 pages! Holy ....

when will you be able to do a practice/tutorial game? i learn better from being shown in person than simply reading a rule book and once i learn, i can help teach it to other people

I would like to do so, but I don't have much free time. Hence the quickstart rules :P

EDIT: Uploaded the quick reference sheet. Hope it helps.

http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/Rulebooks/Quick%20Reference%20Sheet.pdf

Hey I love the game you have created.  I do have a couple of questions/claifications for the rules.  During the Battle phase when damage is dealt, does the loser only assign damage to the characters he has commited to the lines, or to any character he has? 
Are Tactics exiled or sent the funeral pyre or returned to the players hand?  Those are just a couple of questions that I had off the top of my head.  Also I know you said not to post any thing about the plug in but there is no supremacy phase programed in.  I like your game very much, there is a lot of great card interactions.  Even with a bad hand, you can still go on.  Keep up the great work.
Jerod_tb

Thanks for the feedback. I can't believe I made such obvious mistakes.

During the Battle phase when damage is dealt, does the loser only assign damage to the characters he has commited to the lines, or to any character he has?
You can only assign battle wounds to characters that participated in the battle.

Are Tactics exiled or sent the funeral pyre or returned to the players hand?
They are banished, and thus put into exile after the battle.

Plugin is getting updated, along with the quickstart rules and rulebook.

Glad that you like the game :D

Finished the rulebook, as well making a small update to the quick ref sheet.

Rulebook can be found here. (http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/Rulebooks/Kingdom%20at%20war%20Rulebook.pdf)

Also made an update to the plugin. Just update the plugin and it should be alright.

Please ask questions or issues with the plugin at the plugin thread. (http://www.lackeyccg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1185.0)

Jus read over the rulebook. One thing that jumped out at me was the supremacy phase rules seemed to give too much advantage to the player already ahead.

Back from holiday! :D

Well, currently (finally) I have time to play some demonstration games. PM me if you are interested.

@Wisp.
Is this all?

Any other points so far?

Just read through the quick reference sheet, and I think I have the same problem with the supremacy phase, unless this is meant to be a 4+ player game (which I seem to have missed but I'm sure is plainly obvious at some point in this thread). If its multiplayer then players will naturally want to team up and beat on the guy with a dangerous amount of supremacy. In a 2-player game, though, I would probably go as far as to say to skip the phase completely. Really good multiplayer mechanic though!

I'm unclear on how coins end up on cards... So you buy coins with trade you earn after the battle step, and you put those coins on dudes when you marshall them? If that's it then it makes total sense, just something that you may want to clarify on the reference sheet.

One thing that struck me as possibly dangerous for serious-type play is the 40-card deck with 7 card hands and extreme drawing capabilities tri-fecta that's built into the rules. Perhaps you've tested this and found it to be alright, but I could see combos being set up with extreme ease. This will really test the limits of your card designing prowess (not that I don't think you're up to the challenge). The problem being that you could easily set up and have almost the same exact game every game (also depending on how many copies of a card are allowed of course... I'm assuming 3-4). If your game is meant to play that way when played competitively (which mine definitely is, so I'm not saying that's a bad thing), then it's no big deal.

So that's my nitpicking from someone who has only seen some cards and read the reference sheet. I figured you'd want that perspective and I was a good candidate since I haven't read the full rules, which I will when I have some time.

I'm always down to trade playtesting, but you'll have to excuse my strange hours (between 10pm and midnight, sunday thru monday, pacific standard, are the best times) and my clunky usage of lackey. I need to get a headset to make playtesting 1000% easier... working on it.

EDIT: Thought I should edit to add that the cards look great, and it feels like reading through an actual set of cards to a real game when reading through the cards. That probably wouldn't sound like an achievement to a non-designer, but it really is. Keep up the great work.

agree with the above. im up for playtesting

Reading the rules over, I would say the concern about the supremacy phase is probably mitigated because it seems like there is a little built in defender advantage.

You need a little win more mechanic or system in any game or it never ends.  I think the supremacy phase is a very clever way to subtly reward an early lead, without driving the game to a foregone conclusion.

Of course, that all depends on the ballance, so as with all new games, testing testing testing.

I like cyrus btw, would love to trade some testing.  We are just wrapping up some internal beta for my game and would love play your game and hopefully get some play on mine in return!  Let me know.

Okay, I will do some trade testing.

Example of a character with coin on card:
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/Shattered-Crown-Medium/tsc86.jpg)

Example of a possession with a coin.
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/Shattered-Crown-Medium/tsc13.jpg)

Well, after reading the possession card again, I found out there is something wrong with the wording, as the possession should give the coin to the character it's attached to. So it should read "Bearer gains: [+1 coin]." Sorry for the inconvinence.

Oh I got it, cool. You got any time to teach comin up?

Playtesting: http://www.lackeyccg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1252.0

Currently working on the FAQ, rulebook 1.10, and quickstart 1.1.

Sorry for slow updates, but school is being an ass & I'm spending some time painting HORDES minis...

Global Rules Change

Schemes & Plotting
I did a big overhaul of schemes, to make them more like that people are plotting something in the dark and having the opponents guessing what it is. As such, all schemes have now the keyword plotting. (this term showed up many times, so I was bound to turn it into a keyword anyway.)

Plotting X (You may marshall this card face down for 1. Turn it face up any time for it's plotting cost.)
Plotting 1.01: You may only plot cards during your reinforcement phase. Plotting any card costs 1 trade.

New trigger: Turned Face up
This trigger triggers when the card is turned face up from being face down.

Schemes now have all plotting and most have the new Turned Face up trigger. Schemes are still banished from the field at the beginning of your supply phase, so time your plans well.

More updates & MSE tutorial coming soon!

Sorry I haven't had time to playtest this with you, been spending all my time on band stuff lately trying to get a new amp and practice space. PM me if you want to try and set up a specific time. Best times are Monday through Wednesday, 10pm to 1am PST (-8).

I just chewed through large parts of this thread and must say that I am very impressed with your work.

Kudos to you, this is epic!

Thanks! even though I have to admit I saw this more as an experiment and ended up on low support.

Well, lessons learned, and carried over to the next project! :D (in due this year)

I want to try this game. Already installed the plugin, I am reading the rules. Anybody else still interested in trying it?

I have found several design and worldbuilding files on Kingdom at War when cleaning my PC. Reading back some of my idea's and lore gave me interest in this game again. However, as several mechanics are flawed in my eyes, I want to make a remake of it, with a lowered emphasis on battles and more on political intrigues. (well, your choice on how you want to play it)

Comments?

To paraphrase a friend of mine, an unfinished product is just a waste of your (the creator's) time. I should know, I never finish anything. You've put this much time in and got a damn fine looking first draft (or whichever draft), you may as well see it through!

...I'll just go not follow my own advice now...

@Cy: Haha, oh the irony.

@Dragoon: go for it. What parts did you find flawed?

Quite a few things, but most importantly
- I had multiple win conditions, but those were very fragmented.
- Resource system.
- Ways to gain influnce

I liked how the combat system (with the tactics) turned out, so I will keep that

Your combat system is fantastic. I'll have a look at your other stuff and see I can come up with anything to help.

EDIT: For your resource system, why not have characters provide trade for each force they have, if you play them inside your keep.

You mean like they did in Warhammer Invasion? (In that game, you could play your units in three zones, and each zone had a different effect.)

I was leaning closer to the doomtown (yeah, that was it's name :P) resource mechanic with upkeep/income on EVERY card. Might also help balance
I.E. You start with a number of trade, and you have a basic trade income. It stocks, but every card has an upkeep or income of some sorts.

By every card has an upkeep, you mean every card costs money every turn?

That's the idea, though some cards will generate money every turn.

Never really considered a system like that. What did you find to be the problem with it?

Okay, new resource system points

Trade
- Each turn, you generate trade equal to your keep's trade generation
- Also, every card in play has an income or upkeep.
- Cards with income increase your generated trade.
- Upkeep cards need to be paid for or they are banished.
- Some cards also have a loyality upkeep. These cards have icons under their upkeep. You match loyality if you have OTHER cards (including your keep) A card's upkeep increases by 1 for every unmatched loyality icon.

You start the game with a keep card. This card generates a basic number or strength, income and card draw.

Also, new card template
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/menatarms.jpg)

What do you think?

Additonal post due crappy internet.

@Wisp: Balance problems, but otherwise I think it will work fine.

ERRETA: The men-at-arms card has a base upkeep of 1, this should be 0.

Refactioning (Is this a word?)

Due design limits and other stuff, I decided to rework the factions (Again) So here is a list of new factions. THe nonhuman factions were added for the sake of art and design allowance.

Human Factions
House Margol
House Feryn
Sial's Crusade

Non-human factions
Elven Rebels
Ferlan Orcs

Sub-factions
The Guard
Dragon's Peak
The Wild Hunt

another fantastic template dude

Done with the new template
(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/undefined/Character2.jpg)(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/undefined/Scheme2.jpg)(http://kingdomatwarccg.webs.com/photos/undefined/Support.jpg)

Now up for better rules.

First things first, the power mechanic. Ugh.. need brainstorm info...

What is the power mechanic?

What time is it? UPDATE TIME!

First of all, getting a diablo 3 beta code is bad for every project. But, back in action here :)

Revisions:
Turn Structure
Phase 0: Supremacy Phase
- Draw a card if you have either the highest total of strength on all characters you command or the highest total of power on all characters, schemes and agenda's you command.

Phase 1: Battle Phase
- You may fight one or multpile battles. You may attack each target only once.

Phase 2: Plot Phase
- If you have one or more active schemes or plots, you may choose to archive them.
- You may move all power on characters you command to your agenda.
- You may play one card from your hand face down as a plot.

Phase 3: Supply Phase
- For every wounded character you command, you may spend 1 gold. If you do, heal that character. Then, kill all wounded characters.
- Collect income from cards you command with an income.
- Pay the upkeep of each card you command. If you can't pay the upkeep or don't want to, banish the card.

Phase 4: Reinforcement Phase
During this phase, you may take any number of the following actions:
- Draw a card: Spend 1 gold to draw a card.
- Play a card: You may play cards from your hand by spending their cost.

Phase 5: End Phase
This turn ends.

Actions, forced, and gold
- I changed the term trade to gold.
- Gold does NOT deplete during turns. You may hoard it if you like.
- All actions have now a bolded term action before the action line. Actions may be taken. Example: Action: Spend 1 gold to draw 2 cards, then banish 1 card from your hand.
- All actions that MUST be taken at a certain moment have the bolded term forced before their line. Example: Forced: When this character enters a battlefield, exert it.

Wounds & Healing
Wounded characters are now only killed by card effects or in the supply phase. You are free to send only wounded characters to a battlefield.

New card type: Agenda
Agenda's start the game in play and provide certain advantages and disadvantages, as well a basic income and starting gold.

Other Changes
- There are no longer event cards or something similar. Schemes will take over their role (in a certain way).

Keywords
Hidden You may marshall this card into hiding by spending 1. You may marshall it out of hiding at any time by spending it's cost.
- Note: Cards that have no cost, such as schemes, are free to marshall out of hiding.
Fast You may move this character to a battle line after other characters.
Armor This character can't be killed unless it's wounded.

More to come!

Slow updates are slow.

Now, for the revised power mechanic. During your turn, you may play a card from your hand face down as a plot. During your turn, add 1 power token to each face down card and scheme you command. During their turns, players may claim those power tokens by using characters. A face down card can have only 1 power token on it, any other card can have a maxium of power tokens equal to it's influence.

any thoughts?

Currently working on balancing cards and focussing on one faction at a time.

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9922/ultarver.jpg)(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7272/unitt.jpg)

Skirmish abilities even trigger if your tactic is defeated. Though you still might lose.

Hey, are you using MSE for this? Just curious.

Quote from: innuendo on May 07, 2012, 07:43:21 AM
Hey, are you using MSE for this? Just curious.

Yes, I have written my own template app for it.

I figured, so as to not derail this topic, i'm gonna PM you a quick question. Thanks!

While the upkeep thing is a good idea, it just doesn't work with this game, as my playtest group agreed on. It's the first thing they agreed on since development started, so I guess it's true.

This means I will group cards together on synergy.

On another note, I'm a huge fan of wizards' soulbond mechanic. So I'm stealing that. But I plan to go further with it than wizards did. (I think they abandon mechanic's just before things get intersting, which is a shame.) No idea how to name it, though.

As more on synergy, I want several cards to gain a bonus if you command an unique card. A card only count's as unique if it doesn't have an imposter token on it.

That's all (for now)

How about Destined, Linked, or maybe Star-Crossed for an alternate Soulbound name?

Quote from: Cyrus on May 17, 2012, 05:42:09 PM
How about Destined, Linked, or maybe Star-Crossed for an alternate Soulbound name?

I'm currently working with the term allied for playtesting, but Linked might work too.

Ah allied works really well, can't believe my thesaurus brain missed it!

I really like the way these cards look, and I kinda have to ask:

Where are you getting these awesome pictures for the card art? They do all to be in the same art style...do you have someone who's doing the art?  Or are you doing it?

Quote from: DavidChaos on May 25, 2012, 05:52:08 AM
I really like the way these cards look, and I kinda have to ask:

Where are you getting these awesome pictures for the card art? They do all to be in the same art style...do you have someone who's doing the art?  Or are you doing it?

I search Deviantart for pics I want. As long as you aren't going to be commercial and credit the artist, you may use a lot. Some stuff is heavely copyrighted though.

A hint for all people who are building their own game: Make sure your back up discs are well and not being chewed on by mice because you accidently dropped cheese on them when you reset your pc. Just do it.

So.. I just lost a lot of data because I didn't heed my own advice.  :'(

Quote from: Dragoon on June 11, 2012, 09:45:40 AM
A hint for all people who are building their own game: Make sure your back up discs are well and not being chewed on by mice because you accidently dropped cheese on them when you reset your pc. Just do it.

So.. I just lost a lot of data because I didn't heed my own advice.  :'(

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Managed to recover some lost template data, yay for dropbox!

Now working with rules in a google docs document.

For now, the revised five factions

House Feryn
?We know more of you than you know of yourself.?

Smugglers, intrigants, and murderers. This is how House Feryn is looked upon and whispered behind their backs. Now the king has died, there is no mistake where House Feryn's loyalty lies - by itself.

House Margol
?Would you be so kind to return your loan??

Traders and expansionists, House Margol is the financial heart of the Kingdom, and they want to keep it that way. Using their wealth, they will remove any who oppose their claim, either with coin - or blood.


House Urdal
?Courage and Honor?

Lawkeepers and fervent protectors of the kingdom, House Urdal is currently the only force that holds the Kingdom together. Desperatly trying to restore the peace, they are trying to find the lost heir to the throne - or make one.

Maldur Rebellion
?Freedom for Maldur!?

Being forced into the Kingdom as necessity, the Malru region was always agonistic towards the Kingdom. Now, with the king dead, they will fight for their freedom - or die in the attempt.

The Broken Plains
?Their keeps will fall! Their will will fail! Their lands will burn!?

Those who dwell on the Broken Plains always wanted to turn the Kingdom into ruin, for wealth, vengeance, or because it was fun. Exiles, Orcs, Beastfolk and other beings. When united, no civilized race can stand against their might - when united.

Possibly the funniest way to lose data ever... that sucks dude

Some feedback.


Cons: Unnecessarily Complicated

The Intrigue system is pointless the way its set up now and is never used, also the use of both having power and strength is redundant.


Pro: Novel Combat

The line system is a nice way to put it and by having the first and second yield different aspects you give a great source

The supremacy system is also a unique way for characters to draw, and it forces each player to try to come up with ways to keep heir for from getting it, the power of course is redundant but after that it works well (I like the coin system as well)

The way the game is set up also makes it really fun to  battles, with you only being able to play cards AFTER a battle unlike many games were you can play and then battle, a nice way to set the pace of the game.

The art of curse is amazing.


7/10

Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on June 28, 2012, 08:24:17 PM
Some feedback.


Cons: Unnecessarily Complicated

The Intrigue system is pointless the way its set up now and is never used, also the use of both having power and strength is redundant.


Pro: Novel Combat

The line system is a nice way to put it and by having the first and second yield different aspects you give a great source

The supremacy system is also a unique way for characters to draw, and it forces each player to try to come up with ways to keep heir for from getting it, the power of course is redundant but after that it works well (I like the coin system as well)

The way the game is set up also makes it really fun to  battles, with you only being able to play cards AFTER a battle unlike many games were you can play and then battle, a nice way to set the pace of the game.

The art of curse is amazing.


7/10

Thanks for the quick reply. I recognize the scrappyness of intrigues and working on changing it to make it a viable victory condition.

On a completely unrelated note, the mouse is doing fine :)

We also need to set up a better pool of playtesters. "Meta"-wise 0 strength cards are almost usless and I was getting my ass kicked until I lucksacked and milled into three frost wolves in a row when I had the Giant on the field (since there cost was one trade I could play them all for free with his eff , right?)

Also you never specified when you can marshall effects.

Also Power or Strength needs to be one thing, having both adds nothingness to he game but confusion.


Drop the Intrigue system for now  but keep the schemes having them be dead  on the field until they get activated by certain conditions (not just costing trade) is a cool mechanic.

Also make some limitations to what you can play, with "faction" games like this MTG and Duelmasters and the like you need to have some kind of correlation between factions besides just playing alike. Unless you're taking the Yugioh model in which case the faction thing seems kind of pointless.

i like character template, but not location   :'(

I launched the plugging but it's with old template.. too bad

I started to check rules, but 'd like to play with beta tester

good job :)

Thanks for feedback.

For schemes, I had a few ideas:

1. Schemes can be assigned influence from characters during your turn. These characters may not participate in battle. While a scheme has X influence, you may activate it's ability. The scheme gets destroyed.

2. You may exert influence to add influence tokens to a scheme. Opponents may exert influence to remove these tokens. You may remove those tokens to activate it's effects.

3. You may exert influence to achieve schemes or use their ability. When a scheme gets achieved, remove it from play and gain 1 Victory Point. 8 VP = win.

Thoughts?

I'd think a better system would be this:


1. You can Marshal Schemes for free

2. You put schemes into motion by fulfilling specified conditions which can be anywhere from having certain cards out, to doing something in a turn to paying for it in coins, trade or influence. This pumps up the "Quest" or "Plot" aspect f them and makes them feel like "Passive Boss Cards"

For example here's a card I just made up.




"The North's Rebellion"

Motion: When three character cards on your opponents field have died in battle with your House Margal characters mill the top 3 cards of your deck.

When in Motion:

All House Margal Characters gain +1 Strength.

Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 03, 2012, 10:22:50 AM
I'd think a better system would be this:


1. You can Marshal Schemes for free

2. You put schemes into motion by fulfilling specified conditions which can be anywhere from having certain cards out, to doing something in a turn to paying for it in coins, trade or influence. This pumps up the "Quest" or "Plot" aspect f them and makes them feel like "Passive Boss Cards"

For example here's a card I just made up.




"The North's Rebellion"

Motion: When three character cards on your opponents field have died in battle with your House Margal characters mill the top 3 cards of your deck.

When in Motion:

All House Margal Characters gain +1 Strength.

Worth considering. However, I also wanted to have schemes a path to victory. While it might not be an easy path, it would be defenitly a counterpart to brute force.

So, I'm thinking to do the following: A scheme is played for free, and can be set in motion with a certain cost. While in motion, you can exert influence from other sources of the same faction to add tokens to the scheme. When a scheme has X tokens, you may discard it for a Victory Point. Other players may exert influence to remove tokens from opposing schemes.

----------------------------------------------------------
Counting Favors
House Feryn
Influence: *

~'s influence is equal to the number of players.

Whenever another player draws 3 or more cards, you may set ~ in motion.

Motion: When another player draws a card, you may draw a card.

Action: Remove 1 + X tokens from ~ to have target player discards X cards.
----------------------------------------------------------

In addition, I have given each character a leadership stat. This is the amount of characters of the same faction that may follow that character in an unit. Units behave as a single character on the battlefield and the field, but take wounds and deaths as seperate characters. When a unit is wounded, you may choose what character is wounded.

If a character has any battlefield keywords, such as fast, and no other character in the unit has this, that character counts as it doesn't have that keyword.

thoughts?

It's inorganic, you should make one victory  condition and have cards naturally work towards it, not just slapping on yet another aspect to make a type of card relevant.

Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 03, 2012, 02:58:46 PM
It's inorganic, you should make one victory  condition and have cards naturally work towards it, not just slapping on yet another aspect to make a type of card relevant.

Maybe, but I found multiple ways of victory more interesting than a single one. Also, I already have 2 victory conditions. Reducing a keep to 0 hp and reducing a keep to 0 cards, having a third way by collecting Victory Points is not much different, if I implement it right. Also, this words to prevent full strength/full intrigue decks, as they don't have ways to protect them from the other way.

Deck outs are standard rules for loss in most decks, they don't really qualify as a victory condition. I also dont know what you mean by "full strength/intrigue" decks, but the point is that you shouldn't make the game unfocused and cluttered , special victory condition's should be limited to special cards ( DM's Godbird, YGO's Exodia, Chaotics A'une etc.)  while the main aim of winning should be a singular goal that all the cards take a dynamic  and varied approach to achieving. You can have many roads to the same destination but you cannot have one road to many destinations.

@dragoon
can you please uploaded the rules on filehost site.. because somehow my ISP wont allow me to download from your site (even if i change the DNS)

and about multiple winning conditions mentioned above, i think its good idea.
i know the downside of multiple winning condition is will make the game feels like multiplayer solitaire with every player pursuing their own goal instead of interact/conflict between each other.
but i have played another CCG called vandaria wars which have 5 winning conditions and it worked very well, it bring more tense and balance to the game.
the point is as long as you can create a system which maintain the interaction between player it is okay to have multiple winning conditions.

sorry for bad english

Let me just state that the best innovation by far here is the Supremacy system.

Not only is it a really dynamic and fresh outlook on the classic "draw" but by balancing it with a steady and const source of cardfuel in trade, you make it so that using a traditional draw system such as the one used in duelmasters wouldn't work, as you have significantly less control over your  card fuel than in game such as it. By tying it to on field statistics you force players to work against each other on multiple levels of gameplay, and by giving us a larger-than-average hand to start with , and one we keep, it really gets you in character as the general of an army without many assets. You have to WORK with cards drawn so the game becomes about multi-pronged strategy and planning based on the field ( I also like the tactics system) But seriously power has to go, it has no service in game right now than just being a stat for the sake of being a stat and it has a major redundancy with strength. I suggest replacing its Supremacy check with a Scheme check.

Power will be removed. It serves no purpose other than for schemes, and as schemes will be reconsidered as their position in the game (see earlier discussion), so no use for power whatever.

Finally finished reviving my template!

Now, time to mock up the last few rules and than reproducing the core set :D
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6792/altenbloodmage.jpg)

After some talk and many dropped idea's, I think I found a way for faction decks. The faction card.

A faction card starts in play and isn't part of your deck. It has a single special, not so powerful, ability which can be used during the game. Also, it has a number of out-of-faction loyality.

All cards have a set number of loyality. Powerful cards and faction champions will have a very high amount or will even be unable to be used with another faction. Non-subfaction cards won't have any loyality.

When building a deck, you may add cards that don't belong to your chosen faction with a loyality no greater than your faction's allowed loyality.

Edit: 300th post! Woohoo
For example, I use a House Feryn faction card with loyality 15/45. This means I may have 15 loyality per 45 cards I have in my  deck. I build a deck with 50 cards, and thus may add 15 worth of loyality out of faction cards. Thus I can have a maxium of 15 1-loyality cards, 5 3-loyality cards, or anything in between. I may add any number of House Feryn cards (it's my faction), ignoring their loyality.

You might be interested in checking out the Warhammer: Invasion LCG. Each card you have in play from a certain faction can reduce the cost of playing other cards of that faction by a certain amount.

I'm not completely sure how it works, but it supports multi-faction decks through alliance cards.

I'm using a similar faction card idea in a game of thrones/star wars ccg fan-game that I am sorta working on, but the cards have a bigger effect on play. So far in playtesting its been working out, and I really like having the out-of-faction penalty be adjustable so that "setup cards" (my faction cards) can be better in some ways but also limit deck building in certain ways. It also allows for specific setup cards to ban other specific cards from the deck in case insane card interactions are found during playtesting of future sets.

EDIT: In other words, good idea and I hope it works in your game too!

Your first instinct when coming up with issues shouldn't be adding new mechanics. KISM.

I think, given the game, it'd best to just engineer the cards to have natural synergy, they players will play what works. Like my mono white self-mill deck.

Edit your cards to reflect the flavor in game. Fort example in SoulKaiser the United Guardians are Humans who fight along side Mecha and Cyborg. SO I made the Mecha have most of the more offensive and beefy abilities while giving Humans choice effects, that way we actually see the players roleplay out the game universe in there actions.

If two characters would never team up in-universe, make it so their cards have such bad synergy that no sane man would use them together. Stuff like that. It seems now that the faction card is an an unnatural addition.

Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 18, 2012, 02:14:27 PM
Your first instinct when coming up with issues shouldn't be adding new mechanics. KISM.

I think, given the game, it'd best to just engineer the cards to have natural synergy, they players will play what works. Like my mono white self-mill deck.

Edit your cards to reflect the flavor in game. Fort example in SoulKaiser the United Guardians are Humans who fight along side Mecha and Cyborg. SO I made the Mecha have most of the more offensive and beefy abilities while giving Humans choice effects, that way we actually see the players roleplay out the game universe in there actions.

If two characters would never team up in-universe, make it so their cards have such bad synergy that no sane man would use them together. Stuff like that. It seems now that the faction card is an an unnatural addition.

Mono-white self-mill deck? Can white even mill?

But anyway. Your arguments hold ground. However, we are NOT dealing with sane minds here. I know somebody who had One with Nothing as his primary wincon. A card that forces you to discard your hand. As a wincon. Also, he was the same guy who played flash in turn 0 (before the opponent has lands. Gemstone cavern + Spirit guide) with a protean hulk just to fetch 6 mana worth of guys. Things like that happen. And even bad synergy won't stop players fielding two strong characters together.

In short, people will break the game. I hope this way they don't break it hard.

I was referring to your game not MTG (I dont play it) I forgot what the faction was called so I just used it's color. It was the Nordic flavored one.

Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 20, 2012, 12:47:00 AM
I was referring to your game not MTG (I dont play it) I forgot what the faction was called so I just used it's color. It was the Nordic flavored one.

Ah, sorry then. Still my point stands.

I just remembered about your game, Dragoon! I was wracking my brains to think of examples of CCG templates I really liked because I knew I'd seen a really good one somewhere... and it turns out you made it! Seriously, I love the most recent template you have for this game, especially the location of the stats on the left-hand side. I'm not sure about the title in the middle though...

Its a kinda cool game. Wish it was like had a forum for fans to play and playtest and interact more.