My main motivation for making a CCG is making an engaging multiplayer game. I've done a lot of research and put a lot of thought into what makes a good multiplayer ccg, and these are some guidelines i've come up with.
1. Keep it simple, stupid. There should be as few contrived rules as possible. What i mean by this is that a bunch of extra rules that aren't in the 1v1 game shouldn't pop into existence when you start adding extra players.
2. We're all in this together. The win conditions should be designed in such a way that everybody stays in the game until there is a winner. No one is eliminated, and everybody has a chance to win right up until the end.
3. Slow and steady doesn't win the race. Multiplayer games generally tend to be slower by nature than their 1v1 counterparts. The mechanics of the game should naturally account for this and encourage players to be aggressive.
4. Leave him alone! The game shouldn't encourage picking on the weaker player.
5. There's always something to do. Players shouldn't feel like they aren't a part of the game when it isn't their turn. The mechanics should encourage them to pay attention and interact at all phases of the game.
If anyone has any comments on my multiplayer guidelines, I'd like to hear them. Now onto the finest iteration of my game engine yet. This is a short version of the rules designed to cover the important unique elements of the game. The setting of the game is subject to change, but I like the idea of sci-fi, since it's a rare setting for a CCG.
Introduction
Water; water everywhere, and not a drop to drink.
City of Black
? Sprawling diesel-punk city
? The last place on earth where there is fresh, clean water.
? Chinese/Japanese/Arabian influences
? Verticality
? Bottom level: Canals, melting-pot metropolis, shadows, underworld, crime
? Upper level: Pristine buildings, Interconnected walkways, skyscrapers and airships, rich upper class
6 Factions
1. Aristocracy: Ruling class. Bankers, property owners etc. Trying to maintain their privileged position
2. Lotus: Chinese/Japanese theme. Organized crime. Trying to take over Aristocracy from within
3. Union: Workers union including, dockworkers, zeppelin pilots, police etc. Trying to check power of Aristocracy
4. Inventors Guild: Pushing technology forward at all costs, enabled the building of the city
5. Cirque: Circus. Front for occult organization. Ritual based magic, summon spells and creatures from other dimension etc.
6. Visionaries: Arabian theme. Combining magic with technology to modify selves, push the boundaries of what it means to be human
Setting up
Each player needs a 75-card deck plus their 4 territory cards. The deck may not contain more than 4 copies of any card with the same name.
At the start of the game each player draws an 8-card starting hand. They may then mulligan by moving any number of cards from their hand to the bottom of their deck, and then refilling their hand to 8 cards.
Winning the Game
The object of the game is to control all of the Water in the city at the end of a turn. Players claim 1 Water when they build territory. Players can steal 1 Water from an opponent by destroying that opponent?s territory.
When the game starts there is 10 uncontrolled water waiting to be claimed.
Territory
Territories are what provide you with water and resources and are where combat takes place. You may play any card facedown horizontally from you hand as Territory and when territory comes into play under your control, you claim 1 unclaimed water. If there is no unclaimed water, then you do not gain any. It costs equal to the amount of territory you already control for you to build a new territory. At the beginning of your turn you generate resources from each territory you control. When a Territory you control takes damage equal to its HP it is destroyed and moved into your resource pool. If a Territory is destroyed in combat the attacker steals 1 Influence from the controller of the destroyed territory, which may either be added to the attackers influence, or discarded (added to the uncontrolled water) to generate resources equal to the number of the people in the game +1.
Resources, Drawing cards and Thresholds
Your Resources are the cards currently in your resource pool. When you generate resources, you move that many cards from the top of your deck face down into your resource pool. To pay for costs, you move that many cards from you resource pool back to the bottom of you deck. Moving a card from any zone to the bottom of your deck is called ?Cycling?. To draw card, you take one card from your resource pool, and add it to your hand.
To play a card you not only have to pay its resource cost, you also have to meet its threshold requirement. Cards in play and in your discard pile provide threshold. Threshold isn?t spent like resources; it is just a minimum requirement. There are certain cards that provide threshold, but do not have a threshold requirement and every deck must contain some of these in order to play the other cards it contains.
The Cards
Character Cards: Cards that get things done. They attack territories and other characters in order to gain influence and hinder your opponent. Stats: Faction, Cost, Strength, and Initiative.
Support Cards: Cards that attach to characters and territories, either to help your own or hinder your opponents. Stats: Faction and Cost
Event Cards: One-off effects on the game that can be played at any time to gain an instant advantage. Stats: Faction and Cost.
Every card has a resource cost, which is paid for with resources generated by you and your Territories.
The Turn
Turns are simultaneous. At the start of each turn, these abilities trigger for each player:
? Resource: At the start of your turn generate 2 resources + 2 from each of your territories
? Restore: At the start of your turn restore all depleted cards
Each player then takes alternates making the following actions:
? Play a card
? Build Territory
? Use an Ability
? Declare an attack
? Turn a character to heal it
? Set a trap
? Draw a card
? Pass
Once everybody passes in succession, the turn ends.
Once a target for an attack is chosen, the battle is resolved by taking these actions in order:
1. Starting with the active player, each player chooses their attackers, taps them and moves them to the territory of the battle. This is the attacking party
2. Starting with the player to the left of the defending player, each player chooses if they are going to block, and moves their characters accordingly. This is the defending party.
3. The active player and the defender assign the damage of their respective parties in order of Initiative groups. If there are no defending characters or lethal damage has already been assigned to the blocking characters, the attacker may assign damage to the target of the attack.
4. Damage is applied
I think the territories should be contested for like in Sall of Cthulu LCG, so people won'y manage the risk in summoning territories. To have the game with a lot of people make that every time someone attempts to conquer one, other players can attempt as well.
Effects depedent on votes can help you to get all players working together.
If 2 players have 8 influence on the same round, they should both win.
City of Black is a nice name.
Thanks, I'll change the title to include it.
Because this is a truncated version of the rules, I don't think i explained how the territories work very well. I didn't understand your suggestion in the context of my game, so I'll try to explain better.
When a player builds a territory, it comes into play under his control. Territories are arranged horizontally infront of the player who controls them. Each territory is a separate location. Characters can only block the territory at which they are located. They can move from one territory to an adjacent one by exhausting (tapping), and they can only move to an opponent's territory to attack or block.
Territories are how you expand your supply of resources, and having the more territory than any other will gain you influence. However, the more territories you have the harder it is to protect them, and if your opponent destroys a territory of yours, they gain influence.
Could you explain your Call of Cthulhu idea to me again? Thanks :)
Voting effects sound like a good idea, do you have any examples?
In Call of Cthulu LCG there is a neutral Story Deck. Cards come form it and are contested to the first 5 investigation tokens. The winner takes the card, and a new one is up for grasp. First to 3 story cards wins. I think this would allow a far more offensive style, chasing to conquer. It will also take the focus of the weaker players at the time to the battle between the big players.
The voting mechanic comes from Vampire: The Eternal Struggle (V:TeS). You vote if effects will take place like discarding and redrawing you hands.
It's a very interesting concept but it doesn't seem suited to the game i've developed. Also, I am prejudiced against extra decks :P
In terms of focussing on weak players, my battle system allows player to block any attack, not just attacks aimed at them. Other players will step in to protect weaker players because if they don't their opponents will win.
How do the voting mechanics transfer over to a 2-player game? And when do they happen usually?
The voting mechinc does not transfer well to a 2 player game. V:TeS was fun with 4+ players. You can set a special rule if the voting player shosed a side, and it's a tie, that side wins.
I really like the concept and setting. However, your current rules are very prone to a "run-away leader" effect. You should never reward a player for destroying opponent's resources, especially if it is tied with a win condition.
If your Resource is destroyed, you not only have less resources next turn, your opponent is even closer to victory, making it harder to come back into the game.
--
A sample voting system could be with "influence numbers" on cards in hand. Whoever is willing to discards the most influence numbers from their hand "Wins" the territory.. or something like that.
That might well be true in a 1v1 game, but i don't think it is in multiplayer. People can block for each other, so the idea is that the weakest player will be protected by all the other players because if they don't protect him, they lose too.
The precise balance will be difficult to see until I test it, it's definitely one of the things I'll be looking out for when testing. It still might be worth separating the resource mechanic from the territory mechanic.
Could I have some suggestions for a mechanic by which you can steal influence from an opponent?
Also, i think I have solved the problem of run-away victories. When somebody destroys a territory you control, you gain resources. That way, when it comes to your turn you can quickly rebuild.
I like the compensation mechanic for losing a territory. Stealing influence can be supported by effects, or that you can steal by winning a challenge of some kind against a player, and you win the difference in victory, sort of like in A game of Thrones LCG.
There could even be particular cards that let you pay them at a discounted cost when they are destroyed as a territory.
Some stealing mechanic ideas:
Some characters could have an ability which lets them steal when they do damage to a territory?
There could be a raid option, as well as the option to attack, which could have a different dynamic to normal battles? For example characters could compare initiative to a value on the defending player's stronghold.
I like the fact a territory evolves into a support cards if destroyed.
If you win by gaining influence, I don't think they should be stolen in the first place. You can steal anything from a player, but not victory points. That's just bad design. Same thing goes with life link in magic though it is quite limited.
Could you expand on why you think it is bad design. if you can convince me that would be great, one less mechanic to worry about :D
The last thing you want to do is to frustrate the player. People will strategize hard to gain these points, if you lose them, the game shifts from keeping the territories to keep influence safe.
On the other hand, It doesn't mean there can't be other cards that generate influence regardless of the territories or stealing.
Thanks for that. You make a very good point.
Considering what you've said, I may add the ability for characters to steal Influence if they destroy a location but only on a small number of cards. I think this mechanic doesn't shift the focus the game away from protecting territories, since they way you stop them stealing is also the way you protect your territories. I probably wont add them at the beginning.
I still think there shouldn't be any influence stealing abilities, but there can be mechanics to gain influence no through territories.
Right, I'm happy enough with the rules (minor updates int he first post) to start doing more extensive play-testing. Anyone any good at making templates?
*raises hand*
Just give me a few sketches on how you would like it to be done and what style. Don't expect them before the next week though.
Thanks man, i'll have the sketches for you later today
Would you like any additional lore information?
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b552/Cityofblack/Template.png)
Name at the top
Yellow - Resource cost
Black - Faction symbol
And for character cards
Red - Strength
Blue - HP
Purple - Initiative
Strongholds wouldn't have a resource cost, and instead of the character stats would have a stat for resource production and territory hp.
The colours are just there as placeholder, it would be cool to have actually symbols instead of blobs of colour. These are some templates i like:
(http://www.l5rsearch.com/images/cards/HidaFosuko.jpg) (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/agotlcg/news/princes-of-the-sun/the-red-viper-lg.png)
I like the elegance of the L5R template. Its what gave me the idea for putting stats in the middle of the card. I also like the watermark styling of the clan symbol and the layout of the text box. The spoils i like the style generally, the art direction, because it isn't distinctly any particular kind of sci fi or fantasy. However i don't like the stata being bunched up in the top right corner. Generally I'd like to stay away from stats being on the right hand side, as that's where it's hardest to see them when holding cards in your hand. The game of thrones one is just very clean and elegant, and all the stats are on the the left, which makes it easy to see what's what when the cards are in your hand. However, the stats also take up a lot of space in the text box, which is something I want to avoid.
L5R and Game of Thrones both have subtle differences in the card layout for different card types.
Here's some stats if you want to make a sample card:
Name: Shadowy Tactician
Faction: Lotus
Type: Lotus Character | Tactician | Assassin
Cost: 6
Strength: 5
HP: 3
Initiative: 5
Text: "Exhaust this card:: For every territory you control, change the location of a target character to any other legal location"
Experiment as much as you like.
Is this a bit how you would like the style (Heavy cyberpunk-style) Not definitive yet, but just to see if I'm taking the right direction.
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8489/cyberpunk1.png)
I like the pattern of the background, but I'm not too keen on the angularness of the text boxes. I'd prefer something more subtle. Even though the setting is sci-fi, I don't want extremely stylised cards. I do like your currency symbol though.
In fact, thinking about it, I'm not even such a fan of the Spoils template from a style sense, more from a gameplay sense (abilities are explained very clearly, which makes it important to have a full sized text box), so I'm going to delete it.
On the AGoT and L5R templates, it's the icons that give you a clue as to the setting of the game (a gold coin, a crown, an axe or a fan etc) and small details (the edge of the text box being the ends of a scroll).
In general I'm still not 100% sure where I'm going with the setting. It might get more or less cyberpunky, more or less steampunky, more or less standard sci-fi, I just don't know yet. I'm going to stick with whatever leads to the coolest cards in the end. Having said that these things are the core of the setting:
- At the bottom level, an ancient canal city which has been turned into a slum.
- A modern city has been built on top of the old city, which has skyscrapers and walkways connecting its buildings, so those who live up there don't have to ever go down to the bottom level.
- Enough technology for guns and airships
I have a bunch of wallpapers i downloaded from wallpaper sharing sites that I've been using as concept art, should I share some of them?
Quote from: Wisp on December 01, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
I like the pattern of the background, but I'm not too keen on the angularness of the text boxes. I'd prefer something more subtle. Even though the setting is sci-fi, I don't want extremely stylised cards. I do like your currency symbol though.
In fact, thinking about it, I'm not even such a fan of the Spoils template from a style sense, more from a gameplay sense (abilities are explained very clearly, which makes it important to have a full sized text box), so I'm going to delete it.
On the AGoT and L5R templates, it's the icons that give you a clue as to the setting of the game (a gold coin, a crown, an axe or a fan etc) and small details (the edge of the text box being the ends of a scroll).
In general I'm still not 100% sure where I'm going with the setting. It might get more or less cyberpunky, more or less steampunky, more or less standard sci-fi, I just don't know yet. I'm going to stick with whatever leads to the coolest cards in the end. Having said that these things are the core of the setting:
- At the bottom level, an ancient canal city which has been turned into a slum.
- A modern city has been built on top of the old city, which has skyscrapers and walkways connecting its buildings, so those who live up there don't have to ever go down to the bottom level.
- Enough technology for guns and airships
I have a bunch of wallpapers i downloaded from wallpaper sharing sites that I've been using as concept art, should I share some of them?
Please do, that will help a lot to share your vision on it.
Lower level:
http://www.desktopwallpaperhd.net/wallpapers/0/8/wallpaper-web-henryca-citra-group-kupiaxy-2152.jpg This picture really defines the lower level for me.
http://cghub.com/files/Image/165001-166000/165826/572_max.jpg
Upper level:
http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g83/120283/120283_1153906237_submedium.jpg
http://www.infernodevelopment.com/Article_futurecity/Concept_Irontown.jpg
http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/140082/Steampunk-City-840x630.jpg
http://coolvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/steampunkcity.jpg
Take Venice, make it massive, turn it into a slum and build a wealthy futuristic city on top of it. When I think about it, the level of technology is more steampunk than cyberpunk. My ideas changed without me realising it. But that doesn't mean i want lots of rivets, cogs, pipes and silly goggles ;)
I quite like this template too, from our very own malagar and his game "Archons of War"
(http://www.zockergilde.net/files/dwarfgunners.jpg)
I forgot to mention, while researching card backs a long time ago i came across this:
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4OG3uC-bJccgWjI3iNGt9fOyVExhnK9casPQCa-SN0ubnX789YG4COLB8Pw)
If that helps with the aesthetic at all. A normal looking playing card back with a unique logo and a dark aesthetic.
Oh and i did something more research to help me pin down my theme, and apparently what I'm going for is very similar to diesel-punk.
Diesel Punk! Thanks, now I know what aesthic you are aiming at.
No problem.
Another nice picture I stumbled upon
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs30/PRE/i/2008/182/7/2/A_Steampunk_Fairytale_by_frankhong.jpg
I've been trying to eliminate the need to keep track of different variables in my game using counters or dice. At the moment it has resources, influence, character damage and territory damage which all need to kept track of, but I'd want to make it so that only one (or maybe 2) things need to be kept track of. Here are some of my solutions.
1. Resources: I'm making it so that the cards themselves are used to represent resources. At the beginning of your turn you generate resources by moving that many cards from the top of your deck into a resource pool. You then move cards from you resource pool to the bottom of the deck to pay for costs and any destroyed locations get put into the resource pool.
2. Character damage: Damage disappearing at the end of each turn like M:tG, or at the end of battle if it becomes too much to keep track of. Or any other combat system you can think of.
Can anyone think of a way of eliminating the need for damage counters on my territories? Any comments on what I've done so far?
How's that template looking dragoon?
Dude! This looks like its coming along well...
I like the resource idea but mainly because its stolen from my favorite ccg of all time, star wars. I've tried to avoid using it for years, but the real solution may be to just use it. I say go for it.
If you want some character damage to stick around you could maybe implement some sort of 'wound' system? It gets confusing, though, if there's already a lot of tapping being done. You could have a character card be turned upside down (like tapped, then tapped again the same direction) to indicate that they're wounded. To simplify tapping wounded characters you could just disallow it, and thus give some added incentive to heal your dudes.
Just some thoughts. I like where this is going, keep fighting the good fight!
I was wondering when you were going to drop by. I had an epiphany a few weeks ago and since then the game has been coming along leaps and bounds. Now I know what the feel is like (i played some sample games using M:tG cards with my friends, to find holes in the mechanics) I'm just streamlining everything.
The wound thing could work, but to be honest I'm not too worried about having damage stick around. I'll just have to re-balance the combat system. Trying to make this game as counter-free as possible. And yes, it's thanks to you that i know about the star wars CCG so thank you very much. I tried to put the card draw mechanic in there as well but it didn't work so well when i was testing.
How's it hanging?
I made some alterations to the rules and generally cleaned up the OP. The biggest difference is the lack of a stronghold card (I hope that doesn't inconvenience you dragoon, sorry).
EDIT: Keeping strongholds in for the moment, until i find a better solution anyway.
Another improvement on the rules. I added a section for the resource mechanic and explained a few other things better.
EDIT: It has been really hard for me to balance the system of playing territories, drawing cards and resources but i think i finally have it right.
The first problem was territory flooding. Before, I found out that the best tactic was to play as many territories as you could, not worry about protecting them until they were nearly dead, and then use your vastly superior resources to crush your opponent all at once. It wasn't what I had in mind for the game, and got especially boring once both players started doing it.
The other end of the spectrum was being too generous with starting resources. This invariably lead to people using all their starting resources to just destroy their opponents stuff, rather than build their own, and gave their opponent nothing to attack to attack (since they weren't building any territories).
As it stands you can only afford to play 1 territory per turn. Not only that, but it costs you nearly all of your resources to play a territory, leaving you with only as much pending power as you had on turn one. What I'm aiming for is a general plateau at about 3-4 territories, with players only attempting to build more than if their goal is to win via supremacy, rather than destroying opposing locations.
Wisp,
New version of character template. Not finished and no icons yet.
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8109/wispcityblack2.png)
That's amazing.
I like the way the stats are now, but it would be cool if you could play around with where they are placed, just to see what it looks like. I like the idea of having stats on the left so you can see them easier when looking at your hand, but I think there's a danger of it not looking very good. Good work!
How do the stats look rotated 90 degrees, so they take up more of the brown space and less of the picture?
Looks better imo
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9279/wispcityblack3.jpg)
Yeah that looks better I think. Maybe the border on the left could be narrower.
Big update in the first post!
1. Simultaneous turn structure
2. Consolidated the territory mechanic with idea of strongholds that begin in play. Now each player begins with uncontrolled territories which must be brought under control and protected as the game progresses.
3. Small changes to the win condition (which yudencow wont like lol)
4. Addition of the threshold mechanic
(http://www.libermortis.co.uk/site/call-of-cthulhu--the-path-to-y--ha-nthlei-asylum-pack/large-cthulhu-path-to-yhanthlei-cards.jpg)
Call of Cthulu LCG
This is basically perfect in terms of lay out, though not necessarily the style.
EDIT: Fantasy Flight Games do make some really nice templates.
(http://conceptofprogress.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/pic981104_md.png)
Lord of the Rings LCG
(http://www.boardandbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pic_two.jpg)
Star Wars LCG
I'm planning to some play-testing this weekend/next week. Any comments you'd like to make on the game before I do?
Another update to the first post.
I changed the theme slightly, and the gameplay to suit it.
In the world of the city of black pollution has made most of the earth uninhabitable, and the only water supply left happens to be in this 1 city. Instead of accumulating influence to win you are accumulating water. Who ever controls all the water, controls the city.
If anybody cares, my play-testing session revealed what I feared. Although it played fine, well even, it played too much like the ccgs that inspired it, with some taked on mechanics. I'm going to have to redesign it with my new mechanics at the centre if I want it to have an identity of its own. Back to the drawing board.
I guess that means the card templates are put on hold? I currently have a 2-week holiday (finally!), so I can work on the templates.
Haha. Perfect timing.
I'll get back to you in the next couple of days.
I'm trying to shift the focus of the game towards the ideas that haven't been done as much, really build around things like the simultaneous turn structure. It would be cool to get some idea coming in actually.
I made a good, but unspectacular mesh of shadowfist and the spoils. It didn't take advantage of its unique mechanics at all :(
Cool stuff, I dont remember if it was you or Dragoon (or someone else) who had a similar idea a while ago. Its still here in the archives of the board. Party/Adventure/Skirmish style gameplay focused on a single city, mixed with limited politics/faction war and stuff like that.