Hey, guys, mappel6 here. I'm making a CCG called Soul-Master, and that's really why I'm here. I need help making it from some more experienced CCG makers. This game is very unique in its gameplay, each person has 3 different Decks, a main Deck, which is anywhere from 40(?) to 80(?) cards, and that holds all of the players monster cards and effect cards. They will also have the Soul Deck, which is exactly 6 cards, all of which are Souls, and those Souls are a HUGE gameplay mechanic. Then, the player will have a Character Deck, of 1-3 cards, that is not shuffled. This Deck is where the player's character is.
The reason that the Character Deck can have 3 cards in it is because of a Character Series. Think of a multi-staged boss, when their health gets low, they change form. This is like that, except you must fulfill something (Usually having a number of Souls Attached) and fulfill the character's effect cost (Usually returning Attached Souls to the Deck) to summon a better version of that character that usually has a better passive, active, or even both effect that can change the tide of gameplay. Each character has a health value and, usually, an effect.
Now, I shall explain the souls. Each player will have a Soul Deck of exactly 6 Soul cards, and it is thoroughly shuffled. Before the game begins, and every 3 turns, the player will flip the first Soul of the deck and start placing it around the Character, the first one which is placed on the table before the Soul is. The Soul will have various symbols depicting what you can summon, and they also have effects that are either passive or active. You can only use each soul to summon something once per turn, when a "Used" counter is then placed on it. The same for monsters.
Now, for monsters, you can summon them as long as you have the right type and amount of unused Souls to summon them. Then, there are 3 "Frontline" spaces and an infinite amount of "Reserve" spaces. Most monsters go into the Frontline after another monster dies, but some monsters will have abilities that keep them in the Reserve, and may even damage the monster when something happens.
Now, my final topic, rarity. Rarity will actually have an impact on gameplay. The cards are divided into 6 rarities, "Generic," in which an infinite number of those same-name cards (keeping in mind deck limits) can be put into the Deck, "Common," where only 5 of the same-name cards can be put in, "Uncommon," which can only have 4, "Rare," which can only have 3, "Super Rare," which can only have 2, and "Special," which usually has a more personalised name, are the hardest cards to get (and get out) and there can only be 1 of each same-named Special card in a Deck. Characters and Effects cannot have the "Generic" rarity.
So, what do you think? Shoot some ideas, and I will eventually post up a rulebook and a site where you can get info.
First things first, some paragraphs or at least a line break here and there. If I can't read that, then who the hell would be able to read your rulebook?
XD I hope that's better. And, don't worry, the Rulebook and Website will be much more planned out than what I have here. I guess you could say I have a habit of making things semi-unreadable as I just type it up without thought to the readers.
My first immediate thought is that 6 rarity types is quite a lot. You could possibly merge "generic" and "common" together into a single "common" category with no upper limit on card amount in a deck. Is the "Special" rare category intended to be used for promotional/prize type cards that players will rarely obtain? Otherwise I don't see why you couldn't introduce a keyword such as "Unique" that means you can only have 1 copy of that card in a deck. In this way you can have lower rarity/weaker character cards aswell.
The souls system sounds interesting, however instead of having a 6 card soul deck, could you not have a 5 card deck with each of the characters having a soul themselves. By this I mean that each character card also has a soul printed on it giving each player at 1 resource they know they will start the game with. This makes constructing a viable deck more reliable as a player will know (for example) that they have access to 1 fire soul from the start and can build a deck with a few creatures that require a single fire soul. the souls could change as the character changes, or they could stay the same (based on the later characters the player has in their 3 card character stack). Using this, a player would start with their character soul and then on turns 3, 6, 9, etc. draw an additional soul from their soul deck.
-EDIT-
Further to my comments above, you could keep the limit of 5 of each common card but also define a "Generic" keyword that lets you go over this limit.
On the topic of the rarity levels, I don't see why I couldn't use a "Generic" keyword. That's actually a good idea. Also, on the topic of the "Special" rarity, I was planning on using those as some as promotional cards, but some as cards in boosters that are VERY hard to get, VERY strong, and needed to be limited. Not that your insight isn't good, I mean, that is a good idea, but I think I'll keep the Special rarity. I am, however, dropping the "Generic" rarity. I'll put this in the rulebook as time passes.
Now, on the topic of the Souls system, on the very first turn, and every three turns afterwards, you would draw a soul. Having a pre-set soul would take a small bit of the early game randomness out. You would have a soul and you would base a strategy more around that soul. This system allows for more randomness and a bit more customizability. That's what this game is about, creating the deck to be more around your style, not around the character itself.
Also instead of "used" counters, just put the cards sideways.
I can see this as a sort of CFV meets Kaijudo. Keep at it.
I did consider "tapping" the cards, but I wanted to make it a bit more original. On another note, I don't know what Kajudo is and I don't know too much about CFV, so those references are useless towards me, unfortunately. Also, as a heads-up, I have started a rulebook and will post a prototype probably tomorrow. Just an FYI.
Never feel you need to sacrifice playabilty for originality. Remember CCG's rules minimize extra details, tapping them is an easy visual shorthand that's been used in so many trading cards that using it is no more unoriginal than using a hand.
Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 02, 2012, 01:12:54 AM
Never feel you need to sacrifice playabilty for originality. Remember CCG's rules minimize extra details, tapping them is an easy visual shorthand that's been used in so many trading cards that using it is no more unoriginal than using a hand.
Also if you want the game to center around the players playstyle and not the cards, randomness is the exact opposite of what you want. At mini nun randomenesss you play the deck at maximum randomness the deck plays you.
Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 02, 2012, 04:22:54 AM
Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 02, 2012, 01:12:54 AM
Never feel you need to sacrifice playabilty for originality. Remember CCG's rules minimize extra details, tapping them is an easy visual shorthand that's been used in so many trading cards that using it is no more unoriginal than using a hand.
Also if you want the game to center around the players playstyle and not the cards, randomness is the exact opposite of what you want. At mini nun randomenesss you play the deck at maximum randomness the deck plays you.
You must understand, even the randomness will be customizable to a degree. There will be some Souls that aren't very specific, and you can basically summon anything withing a few guidelines, but there will also be some that are more specific for the daredevils out there. Although, the player can decide everything, as long as it fits in the guidelines in the rulebook. Also, next time, just edit your post. Unnecessary double-posting can irritate me, even if I'm the one to do it.
I'm definitely getting the sense that the souls aren't a typical resource and they are more flexible than perhaps I and others here have been assuming. For example, it sounds like there isn't a fire soul that reads "gives 1 fire resource". Basically, I am looking forward to more details on the souls themselves and how they work, which I imagine will be forthcoming with the preliminary draft rulebook.
Ill have to see the rules before commenting further.
It sounds like the game is pretty slow. Why? Because a player has only max 6(!) resources to use to summon monsters/other stuff during the whole game. Also, you get only 1 resource every 3 turns. Which is pretty slow.
As for characters, maybe it's better to make dual sided character cards, like wowtcg, and have certain triggers/costs to flip them to a new version.
I have a unreasonable hatred of rarity, so I will not comment on that.
@Dragoon, the game is meant to be a little slow, but the resources are, in no way, little. Most monsters will cost 1-3 souls to use, 3 being an upper end cost for later-game cards. Also, some cards that are more used as "trump cards" will usually have a requirement to fulfill as well. Also, there will be a powerful and game-changing mechanic that rewards those that can hold out long enough to bring out all 6 Souls in the deck: The all-powerful Soul Synchro. This will be a big game changer, and it can dish out some real damage. But a downside? Yes, there has to be one. If you do not end the game with a Soul Synchro, then afterwards it punishes you by sending all of the Souls back to the Deck, every single one, and you cannot draw a Soul until you have waited 3 turns, like normal, to draw one out normally. This can set back someone, the cards they have on the field will be unaffected, but certain cards cannot be used until more Souls are back out. I am not sure whether or not to enforce a hand limit, but, if I do, then this can cause a disaster to a non-prepared Player. That said, I shall get back to completing the rulebook. It will take a while longer than I assumed. However, the finished version will help. A lot. As in, being a basis for the final versions and serving as a "Read this for info" for new people wanting to join into this conversation. Now, that I have finished here, what do you think of the "Soul Synchro" system as a sort of game finisher? With a good deck, and a strong hand, someone could be able to pull this off fast. However, it depends on feedback. Since this is my first time, I don't really know what can make good game mechanics, what can with tweaks, etc. All of the feedback is helping me build this project.
You know what, just send us the rules, because there's no way we can get a scope here if you keep posting piecemeal like this.
@Komosis|Omegan As I mentioned, it is taking a while to write the rules. In the meantime, you could still suggest some features and mechanics and stuff.
Everytime we try you counter with something from the rules that only you know.
There are some things I haven't thought out. Besides, it's just suggestions.
The point is it is really hard to give any kind of meaningful input when we're so out of depth. I know it can be hard to compose thoughts like this but unless you give us something at least somewhat definitive we cant really help that much.
Update time!
As I'm trying to perfect this, I will need the help of this forum. And, so, I will post the work on my rulebook.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tBNEhIfgh-lPu1mpgU2EtKkcaME4iR_nxT7t5Qd_WHQ/edit#
And, so, how can I make this better? I want to be able to convey this better, maybe make it shorter, but still make it to where it's still in depth. So I must ask you guys, as a potential player, what do you consider shrapnel, and what do you consider to be useful information?
Also, I want to ask if anyone can make a card template. I want it to be able to include the Values (Only Health for Characters, Health and Strength for the Summons, nothing for Souls), Emblems (The Element and Form circles), a text box for effects and maybe some flavor text, and, perhaps, make it easily editable if I find something missing. But, still, if you make one, it would be GREATLY appreciated.
EDIT: Mulligan. Yes, mulligan. I need some rules on mulligan. How should I limit it? Should you draw less cards every time? Should you have a limit to how many times you can? Both? Also, I'm planning on making the starting hand 6 cards. Does this seem good?
The soul based resource system does sound as if it will be highly random/unreliable as far as getting a good starting position goes. Due to this I would suggest allowing 1 free full hand mulligan to each player.
The base hand size will most likely come from playtesting. 6 is as good a place as any to start.
Depends on how well you can draw cards. 6 cards isn't good if you can't draw a card the first turn (Such as with magic), so you should use 7 then. Otherwise, 6 is fine if you can get new cards easily.
Mulligan: I am a fan of a 1-time full hand mulligan. Maybe multiple mulligans should be allowed at a -2 card penalty per mulligan.
I like the soul system. However, how many souls with the same name can I include?
Still no fan of the character deck. I think a dual sided card will work better for what you want to achieve. Again, the character deck doesn't state any limitations.
As for card templates, I think I will give it a shot later.
I think one free mulligan will be good to start with, then maybe have it to where you can do it again for 1 card less, until a good starting hand is achieved or the player is left with one card. Basically the Magic system, but with the free mulligan to start with, if I am correct.
Also, I'm planning on perfecting with playtesting, so I'll start with 6 hand size.
@Dragoon, the amount will depend on the rarity of the card and the presence of the "Generic" keyword. In both of the starting decks I plan on making, there will be one Generic soul for each deck with the emblems "Lemniscate" and "Humanoid."
Also, I will change things with playtesting. Should the character deck not work with what I have planned, then I probably would create the dual-faced cards.
As well, I updated the rulebook to include more explanations on the Character Deck. I need the rulebook looked over, still, and I need someone to tell me what is "shrapnel" and what all is important, that sort of stuff.
1. What do you do with "Setless" characters that dont evolve.
2. I really have no idea whats going on here would you mind posting an example of a game in prose?
3.. How do you win?
4. So would you only be using on character set per deck.
5. It would really help to see a game acted out, at least in proxy.
6. Try making a "quickstart" guide with this as a templet:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jubixlpIYK4/T-oLblxS5qI/AAAAAAAAANw/Q4hrjVa5gj0/s1600/kaijudorules.png)
1. With the "Setless" characters, you just keep that one. You don't "evolve," you'll have a generally mediocre character to a fully evolved Set character, but one superior to the unevolved ones. It's basically a "kill them before they evolve" thing.
2. I will write one up, and maybe make a video when I get some cards drawn up.
3. By the terms of the Lackey website, it's a main of Assassination with a sub of Decking. I am not planning to add any "You win" cards.
4. Yes, although between games, it would be easy to switch characters out, as not too many decks depend entirely on the character set or character that they use.
5. I will, eventually. I have to write it up first, or make some cards first on Lackey to use in the game.
6. I will, it would be a lot easier that way.
Now, Kosmosis|Omegan, I have a question for you.
Why the h*** did they rename it Kaijudo?
EDIT: Also, I decided to just go to tapping. It's much more convenient.
Quote from: mappel6 on July 07, 2012, 12:01:44 AM
Why the h*** did they rename it Kaijudo?
I think I can answer this. They were trying to be smart by creating a madeup Japanese word to describe a way of fighting using giant beasts. I believe "kaijuu" means giant beast.
So if Bushido is the way of the warrior, Kaijudo is the way of the giant monster...yeah...lame.
For more lame smartassery with Japanese see the game Redakai, in which akai means red, so you have "red red."
Quote from: Typherion on July 07, 2012, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: mappel6 on July 07, 2012, 12:01:44 AM
Why the h*** did they rename it Kaijudo?
I think I can answer this. They were trying to be smart by creating a madeup Japanese word to describe a way of fighting using giant beasts. I believe "kaijuu" means giant beast.
So if Bushido is the way of the warrior, Kaijudo is the way of the giant monster...yeah...lame.
For more lame smartassery with Japanese see the game Redakai, in which akai means red, so you have "red red."
...
This is freaking hilarious.
It's based on the word Kaijudo a weird Card game based magic martial art from the original DM. "Kaiju" meaning "Strange Beast" an therefore 'Kaijudo" being "Way of the Strange Betas." (There's also a "Judo" pun.) After DM died in America in '06, WOTC probably invigorated by the sucess of parent company Hasbro, rebooted it in America as Kaijudo, with a new show on the Hub and everything.
http://www.kaijudo.com/news/making-of-2/index.html
Quote from: Kosmosis|Omegan on July 07, 2012, 03:40:42 PM
It's based on the word Kaijudo a weird Card game based magic martial art from the original DM. "Kaiju" meaning "Strange Beast" an therefore 'Kaijudo" being "Way of the Strange Betas." (There's also a "Judo" pun.) After DM died in America in '06, WOTC probably invigorated by the sucess of parent company Hasbro, rebooted it in America as Kaijudo, with a new show on the Hub and everything.
http://www.kaijudo.com/news/making-of-2/index.html
Makes sense.
Also, I've gotten a program named "Scribus," so I will start on a early version of the quickstart guide and maybe a card template. Just an FYI.
The only type of double-posting I like:
BUMPs.
This game sounds pretty interesting.
Using resources from an seperate deck avoids mana-screw/mana-flood. Plus, it can make it so that players may have to improvise based on what soul they get. What would be really cool is have different souls bring out different effects on your cards. This makes it so that players can make some interesting combos and surprise opponents.
One thing that gets me is the character series and having a seperate deck for it seems a bit unnessesary. I can see where you're coming from with the whole stages thing, but I think you can just have a double-sided card to do that for you. I know it's just 2 stages, but for a short card game, you'd probably only need 2. First is for the early to mid-game, second is for the late-game.
Aside from that, your game is looking great. Looking forward to playing it.
Dis needs bumpin. Imma bump it up.
I am going to be picking this back up sometime soon, just so everyone knows.